Universal's legal action against 11th Hour

POSTED BY: CABridges
UPDATED: Monday, November 13, 2006 09:47
VIEWED: 59280
PAGE 10 of 17

PREV PAGE 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 NEXT PAGE

CITIZEN

Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
because original artwork by BlueSunShirts, BlackMarketBeagle and 11th Hour does not belong to Universal...
just like Andy Warhol had every right to paint and sell Campbell soup
cans, free expression of art does mean something.

Actually they do if it's based on original Universal copyright property. If you produce anything based on the Serenity Film from a T-Shirt to a fan fiction, even if all content is created by you personally that content legally belongs to Universal as a derivative work. Seriously this has been tried and tested, some guy produced an image of a spaceship he designed set in the Star Wars universe, Lucasart used it and it turns out they didn't have to pay him anything because they owned it.

Copyright law, a sin against mankind, gotta love it.

There is however such a thing as fair use. If you had the Serenity logo (for instance) on your Serenity fan site that's fair use. If anyone tells you to bring it down tell them where they can shove that bumper edition of copyright law.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

ARBAS

Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Arbas:
Nonsense they could issue C&Ds and NOT demand retroactive fees, stock and sales info

Possibly. Or possibly the people who bought licenses are claiming damages and are estimating huge sales and Universal needs proof to the contrary. They can't do that without the sales records and showing what a small stock is actually on hand.

The world is not full of fuzzy bunnies and sunshine 24/7. Universal is a corporation. Sometimes they need to do mean things to survive so they can bring us shiny movies. It's the world we live in and I'd rather focus on the positive.

Fair comment but surely to be accurate you'd need complete sales figures sinc the store opened - or to relevent to the licence sales figures since the licence was granted.

Not having a dig here but what is positive about this?

edit - and I have to ask again - what is different about 11th hours setup to warrant the demand for fees when others have only rec'd a c&d order? Or are you saying the action ISN'T being taken by Universal but rather the licence holder - if that's the case we have a simple reaction (you need to KNOW this is accurate info though) we publicise across every medium we have access to what the licence holder has done then boycott the company.

KANEMAN

Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:48 AM

"action ISN'T being taken by Universal but rather the licence holder - if that's the case we have a simple reaction (you need to KNOW this is accurate info though) we publicise across every medium we have access to what the licence holder has done then boycott the company."

Why punish the honest legal person? Why do we want him to be on the "losing side", when we are not sure he's on the "wrong side"? Read what I just wrote...again...again...once more..I mean, the licensee could very well be a browncoat you assholes.........you fuckheads are starting to sound like reavers instead of BDHs..get a grip.....Well, it's true..........

ARBAS

Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:11 AM

Hang on - you're saying the licensee could be a browncoat so we shouldn't penalise them after saying it's the licensee taking the action in the first place also against a fellow browncoat????? What's the difference?

Important point if I remember the wording of my post correctly the actual quote should say something like "If the action ISN'T being taken by Universal but rather the licence holder" That's an important point IF

FIREFLYGAL

Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:30 PM

Bumping because this should NOT be falling off the main page

I aim to misbehave!

Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.outtotheblack.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/mssquarepeg.com
www.cafepress.com/mrsquarepeg.com

CITIZEN

Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:19 PM

The point of fact:
Universal has every legal right to do what they are doing (which obviously doesn't make it right, there is a cute, though erroneous, notion among many that the law is about Justice, oh how I laugh).

The reality:
What they are doing is basically what someone in the Industry (a friend of a friend) said they'd never do, because and I quote, "but who would do that, it's just too f**king petty".

Or as SimonWho put it in another thread ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24744#400035):

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Speaking of admiration for others, may I just tip my evil cap in the direction of Universal's lawyers. I know I dabble with evil as a hobby but it takes a lot of guts to do it for a living (mostly the guts of your enemies but your grandmother's will do in a pinch).

It takes a certain amount of magic to turn around a group of people from sending you letters of praise to calling for a boycott of your entire firm and you pulled it out of the hat. My heartiest congratulations.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:39 PM

Universals Lawyers made me do it.

ZEEK

Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Arbas:
Fair comment but surely to be accurate you'd need complete sales figures sinc the store opened - or to relevent to the licence sales figures since the licence was granted.

Not having a dig here but what is positive about this?

edit - and I have to ask again - what is different about 11th hours setup to warrant the demand for fees when others have only rec'd a c&d order? Or are you saying the action ISN'T being taken by Universal but rather the licence holder - if that's the case we have a simple reaction (you need to KNOW this is accurate info though) we publicise across every medium we have access to what the licence holder has done then boycott the company.

The positive side is they're a giant company who gave us a movie. All the lawsuits they've filed in the past built up to us getting a movie. Did you boycott back then? Apparently it's only bad when it's taking away something you want. Rather than when it's giving you exactly what you want.

Also, the difference apparently is that 11th hour did official licensed work before. Apparently providing art for the Serenity RPG. That could bring down all sorts of extra legal hellfire on her. If she signed any sort of contract it probably had plenty of legalease in it. She may have also been given access to Universal copyrighted material to produce the game. They might think she is now using that material in her unauthorized merchandise.

CANTER

Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:45 PM

I'm a lawyer.

Sorry.

I respect the rights of Universal to protect their intellectual property. I believe they have the right to ensure that property they spent money on are protected for their benefit.

But, here is the thing. I don't believe Serenity or Firefly belongs solely to Universal. I don't believe Serenity or Firefly is anyone's property. I believe that when they expressly and impliedly encouraged and condoned fan-advertising and promotion, they abandoned part or all of their exclusive rights in favour of the public.

That would be my defense if it went to court.

But, being from a different legal system, I'd probably lose. But losing doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I believe that we should not stare ourselves blind to the fact that Universal has certain legal rights. Traditional legal concepts cannot and should not prevail against what we are. We have to remember that we are Browncoats. We did what no other fandom in the history of television has EVER done. We kept our 'verse alive against all the odds. We are mighty. We are special. Being a Browncoat for me is not just about being a fan of a TV show. It's about being part of something.....bigger. It's an emotion. It's about an idea that matters. It's a meeting of minds.

It's the slippery slope of fanatisism. But the great thing is. I'm not alone. And that is enough.

So, how many Browncoats are we? How fanatical are you? Or are you reading this and cringing...slightly fearful for my sanity?

So what if Universal "owns" the franchise. We ARE the franchise. Why should they be allowed to hurt us?

This might be the initiative we've been looking for to relight our firefly

Burn the land and boil the sea...

CLEMENTINE

Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:21 PM

11th hour:

I cannot begin to imagine how betrayed you feel. You have done so much for this 'verse. Serenity Valley indeed and High Command has asked you to lay down arms.

But that is not Firefly and that is not the Browncoats. We are with you: out in the black and still flyin'. Our loyalty is to each other as much as the BDH. You need anything, don't be shy to ask.

They picked the wrong fandom to try and stomp on and it's really going to bite them in the pocketbook. What are those licences worth now?
__________________________________________

formerly known as RimGirl

PREV PAGE 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 NEXT PAGE