Browncoats... good guys or not?

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:07
VIEWED: 33379
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GHOULMAN

Friday, February 6, 2004 9:07 PM

I was ruminatin'... yet again... about the subtext of Fireflys premise. The Alliance (who act and dress like Nazis) are certainly the bad guys.

But...

The 'Browncoats' aren't effectively seen as being 'good' in any sense of the word, just the losers of the War. Perhaps the browncoats are a closer parallel to those real-life rebels than the show had time to tell us?

There - that should keep ya'll busy for the week-end. Cheers! Shiny!

AURAPTOR

Friday, February 6, 2004 11:15 PM

How many other browncoats do you even see in the show? There's Zoe, of course. And maybe another smuggler ( forget his name ) from 'Trash'. Hell, even here in the South, (Georgia) there are all sorts of symbols and sentiments for the Confederacy. You'd think there would be some similar affinity to the Independents, even if they were on the losing side. Oh well

To address your question, I'm not sure there is enough evidence, but my GUESSS is that the Independents were just a collection of folks who wanted to remain free and have more self determination.

SHINY

Friday, February 6, 2004 11:35 PM

Paraphrased from Joss Whedon's commentary, "don't matter none...everone thinks they're righteous"

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

FORTUNATUS

Friday, February 6, 2004 11:40 PM

Mal - reluctant good guy
Zoe - good guy
Capt. Montgomery - ambivalent, but Mal's friend
Tracey - dumb bad guy
The guy from "Dead or Alive" - bad guy

Anyway, the Alliance are pretty Nazi-like, but I expect that we'd have seen plenty of decent Alliance folks had the show continued. I can't see Joss letting them remain that Star-Wars-Empire-ish for long, considering how much he dislikes playing to stereotype.

All in all, I think Shiny said it well. Everyone's the star of their own show.

_______________
"Yep. That's a cow fetus."

GHOULMAN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 12:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Paraphrased from Joss Whedon's commentary, "don't matter none...everone thinks they're righteous"

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

Nice one!

And yea AU, there isn't much evidence. I can recall the military guys on ships and soldiers on trains that had a Nazi stink, as it were, too them. But, there's all sorts of authoritarian styles to pick from and we could easily find examples other than the Nazis. Would the Alliance control of all, I guess or at least in theory, the planets. Core planets and now, since the war, the rest.

I can also remember seeing Persephony. That planet was controled but fairly normal. And the hospital scenes seemed to show a pretty normal setting more or less. Well, there was a lot of security, hmm. Gotta se that ep again.

And then there are those oh so important family scenes with Simon and River. The whole thing of Simon fighting his father ... lots about what the Alliance is about I recon.

As for the Browncoats... well, the border worlds are obviously destitue and very poor, there might just be a reason for that beyond the war. Hell, perhaps the war had nothing to do with it!

Mal might just be a romantic, the blind sort. Zoe definately isn't like that, she seems not to have many delusions. Hmm. People have there reasons sometimes... wish this show was around a little longer so I don't have to guess. Oh, I said a sad thing, sorry.

AERRIN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 5:11 AM

Nazish? Really? I never got that vibe - what aspects of the Alliance do you think are particularly reminiscent of the Nazis?

Myself, I find their 'evil' to be (and please don't shoot me here) of the sort that comes from a big, huge government where corporations have a huge toe in the door of policy and the little guy slips through the cracks a lot. Rather more like the US.

I don't even find them 'evil,' persay. I find them beaucratic. Willing to sacrifice things they shouldn't be. Too focused on the 'big picture' with not enough attention to the people. A lot of red tape, of struggling to the top, of selling out your brother for a promotion - but that's not evil. That's.. I dunno. Bad, certainly, but I'm not sold on evil.

I'm really interested about the connection between the Alliance and Blue Sun - the hazy lines that run (or don't) between the government that makes our laws and the companies that make the products we buy. What's good for one is good for the other? Dunno.

Anyway - I'd be really interested in hearing which bits are making people think Nazi.

LTNOWIS

Saturday, February 7, 2004 6:03 AM

Quote:
Anyway - I'd be really interested in hearing which bits are making people think Nazi.

Uncaring, stiff, formality is the feeling I got from them. And the guy in The Message just screamed Gestapo. Also they have helmets for their soldiers, unlike the Russians.

Hey, I just realized something. We say they're like Nazis, but didn't Nazis used to be called Brownshirts, like in the 1920s? And didn't the German Army wear gray uniforms?

AERRIN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 6:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LtNOWIS:
Quote:
Anyway - I'd be really interested in hearing which bits are making people think Nazi.

Uncaring, stiff, formality is the feeling I got from them. And the guy in The Message just screamed Gestapo. Also they have helmets for their soldiers, unlike the Russians.

Ah. Now see, the thing is, the Nazis may have been stiff in their formations (they certainly took pride in being well-ordered) but 'uncaring' isn't a term I'd use. They cared quite a bit. Sometimes it wasn't a /good/ thing, but they always exhibited an overwhelming amount of passion - pride in their nationality and their accomplishments and their culture, and hatred of those they percieved to be sullying that, those who were against them.

I don't associate the sort of apathy for the welfare of the people that I see in the Alliance with the Nazis at all. People weren't allowed to just slip between the cracks - Nazis were taken care of (the Nazis were big on social programs - youth groups, sports clubs), and enemies were punshed or eradicated. There was very little just 'ignoring' of folks, the way we see the Alliance doing. Again, that seems to me to be more a trait of certain modern Western nations, where far too many people are allowed to slip between those cracks.

And I have to say, I think the helmets is probably a long shot if we're trying to match governments here.

STEVE580

Saturday, February 7, 2004 6:49 AM

The Independents wanted...well, to be independent of the Alliance. That's all. If you look at the Alliance, you see why. I think that's all it boils down to.
-Steve

ROCKETJOCK

Saturday, February 7, 2004 8:13 AM

Uniform design can be a very useful shorthand in visual SF, although it's remarkably easy to fall into cliche, something Joss usually avoids.

On the other hand, it is a truism that totaltarians, especially fascists, alway have the sharpest uniforms.

"Say what you want about the Nazis, but they made damn fine villians" -- Alan Moore, "Supreme"

RocketJock

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