Universal's legal action against 11th Hour

POSTED BY: CABridges
UPDATED: Monday, November 13, 2006 09:47
VIEWED: 59280
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6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:35 AM

What do you propose Jadehand? I've got a lot of free time and I'm down for a little mischeif.

Let's be bad guys.....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

KAELE

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 3:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
People, She was selling other peoples sh*t...She is a thief, I know we all love our thieves around here, but come on ....They should take her to court and sue the wrinkles off her ass.....Well, I would.............

It's been some time since I've visited 11thHour's website to see what she had for sale there before her massive editing done this past weekend, but if you're going to license something as generalized as two specific chinese characters... That's like saying, "Wait! You used the letter k and l next to each other! I own the letters k and l when they're next to each other. Pay up." It runs along the same lines as someone trying to trademark, "That's hot." And we all know how well that one did.

Let's add this one up, shall we? Let's guestimate an advertising contract for her company at roughly $40,000 a year, all paper and internet based work, paying her employees (us) for spreading around her posters. Since the movie was obviously promoted before it was released, I'd say Universal owes HER over $60,000 for the work she's done promoting their movie.

They ASKED fans to promote the movie. How can we do this without actually mentioning the movie or producing some sort of product to accomplish this for them? Perhaps us Browncoats did TOO good of a job?

I agree with the speculation that there are official license holders out there who have complained to Universal and want their licensing protected since they were they ones who paid for it. This sort of thing reeks of a mass-produced letter from some schmoe who sat at a desk and searched through CafePress' stuff just looking to shut people down and make a little money off of it.

'Cause you know that 11thHour is just rolling in dough. *cough* Please excuse the sarcasm, my head cold doesn't tolerate idiocy very well. This is just plain wrong.

~Kaele
PA Browncoats, Delaware Valley Brigade
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/PA_browncoats/

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 3:19 AM

Well said, Kaele.

This is truly frustrating! unbelievably so!
11thHour, if you're reading, Babe, we are 100% behind you on this!

There has to be a way to fight this, and to make it clear that 11thHour's work has only BENEFITED
Universal and their film.
And YES, if you need it, we can do a fundraiser, a pledge drive, a SUPPORT OUR 11TH HOUR NOW fund. Just say the word.

I'm heartsick over this.

JADEHAND

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:13 AM

As I said, I'm no genius, and I'm overly emotional when it comes to bullies picking on good people. 11th hour is a brilliant artist, and I was as honored to have her autograph on the Serenity RPG, (for which she created the art) as I was our own BDHs. I just think that if Universal gets a few thousand letters saying something along the lines of: "We browncoats love Firefly and Serenity. We promoted it out of love, to bring the word to those who needed it told. You profited from that, and now it seems you want to turn on us. You turn on one of our crew, you turn on us all. If this position you are taking is due to interest in continuing our beloved story. Tell us now. We'll stand behind you and find a way through this so as no one gets hurt. If you've no plans to continue our story and this is all about the money.... You'll never see another penny from any of us, or our friends, or theirs. If this is about some moron that bought the merchandising rights.... they're done. None of us will ever buy a gorramn thing from them. Drop this crap, or watch us rise."

Let's be exceptionally! conservative. Let's say there's merely 200,000 of us, and we all tell our four closest friends that aren't browncoats, and each of them tells 3 others, and they tell 2, and they tell 1 more .... 24 million people never, ever, paying to see another film from Universal.... might hurt.

'course... I'm insane.

"But you sleep like a ghost with me
It's as simple as that
So tell me I'm mad
Roll me up and breathe me in
Come to my madness
My opium den
Come to my madness
Make sense of it again."
Goodbye to all that. III-The Opium Den (Brave)-Marillion
visit WWW.Marillion.com for a better way of life.

WALLRAVEN

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:18 AM

From these bits, I'd say 11thHour has at least one legal leg to stand on

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:

Intellectual Property Law and the Fan - A Primer
...
You can't trademark a title and you cannot trademark a person's name. Book titles can’t be trademarked. Television titles can but within reason and only if you prove distinctiveness.
...
Screen-shots, Images, and Icons
...
It is copyright infringement to sell a TV shirt with Spike on the front, his name and “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” underneath, but not copyright infringement with just a picture of “Spike” that you created and was not taken directly from another person's work.
...
Another perhaps better example - someone online recently posted a shirt they'd created with ironed on drawings of characters from Firefly as well as imagery taken from the show Firefly and the film Serenity. All of it was their own artwork and they got the idea from a shirt one of the characters wore on the series. Is this infringement? No. Can they sell it or show it in an art gallery? Yes. Of course they can. Just as Andy Warhol could do his paintings of Marilyn Monroe. It's not a derivative work or an adaptation. It is an innovative work distinct from the original.
...

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:50 AM

Embers.... that is awesome. Where did you find that? I would like to learn a bit more about this subject myself, from a legal standpoint. Maybe the Universal pigs don't have a leg to stand on themselves. Maybe they are just hoping that unwarranted bully tactics from an entity who might as well have all the money in the world as far as their victims are concerned will make the pennyless masses tremble in fear and bend over.

Jadehand... I like your idealism, but I've been through enough to know that counting on 24 million people boycotting Universal would probably never even happen. You can't even get a national no-gas day organized when gas tops $3.00/gal for the national average.... not to mention the fact that I can't count on many of my friends for anything in the first place. I'd like to see a third party in office in 2008 too but I'll be dead before I ever see that happen. Sadly, the only way that millions of people would boycott Universal was if all of the news agencies started running 24 hour coverage on how Universal was responsible for the death of millions of Jews in WWII. That always seems to sell tickets and garner a lot of sympathy.

Come to think of it, that would be pretty cool if we could blame that on Universal. If only there were a way.......

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

ARBAS

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:55 AM

Just a point or two :)

1) This isn't a cease and desist it's a demand for money and stock

2) You really expect me to believe that a firm of lawyers couldn't trace an address from a website when they have a legitimate legal claim to retroactive fees and stock? Sorry but any lawyer employed by an organisation the size of Universal would have no problem doing that.

Contact a lawyer? - yes if it's free

Contact the police? - most definately

Contact Universal? - through their website NOT through any url in the original e-mail (it may be a scam remember) use http://www.universalstudios.com/homepage/html/contact_us/contact_links
.html and hit the Corporate and Licensing links

EMBERS

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wallraven:
From these bits, I'd say 11thHour has at least one legal leg to stand on

it is a difficult question...one of her main images was this one (offered in different colors):

it is obviously original art work,
but using the phrase 'can't take the sky from me'
and the word 'Serenity' makes it clear that it is related to the movie...
I think a good lawyer could beat this wrap because it is an original personal statement and not a copy of anything from the movie,
but a bad lawyer would probably lose and end up costing 11thHour a lot of money ....
the whole situation really sucks and I hope that Universal will be satisfied with her taking down her shop w/cafepress and will drop it.

WHOISRIVER

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:03 AM

Quote:

2) You really expect me to believe that a firm of lawyers couldn't trace an address from a website when they have a legitimate legal claim to retroactive fees and stock? Sorry but any lawyer employed by an organisation the size of Universal would have no problem doing that.

In the case of 11th Hour's, she uses AT&T's domain name, not her own. It's their webspace, their server. If Universal's lawyers wanted her address, they would have to file discovery charges with AT&T to get her address - which costs money, which they would also demand from 11th Hour.

It's very, very common practice for legal notices to go via email. Trust me.

However, unless they could prove you received it (and they can, because of the online topics here) they can't very well action it, in terms of timescales they give (3 days in this case).

11THHOUR

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wallraven:
From these bits, I'd say 11thHour has at least one legal leg to stand on

it is a difficult question...one of her main images was this one (offered in different colors):

it is obviously original art work,
but using the phrase 'can't take the sky from me'
and the word 'Serenity' makes it clear that it is related to the movie...
I think a good lawyer could beat this wrap because it is an original personal statement and not a copy of anything from the movie,
but a bad lawyer would probably lose and end up costing 11thHour a lot of money ....
the whole situation really sucks and I hope that Universal will be satisfied with her taking down her shop w/cafepress and will drop it.

That's an old version of that art. The revised version did not have the word "Serenity" on it.

11th Hour

>>>}———————————————)))======<[]>======(((———————————————{<<<

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
Cafe Press Shop ~ http://www.cafepress.com/11thhourart

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