I support Bush because ....
POSTED BY: rue
UPDATED: Monday, September 18, 2023 03:50
VIEWED: 13337
PAGE 9 of 14
Hmmm.
I could do better.
I just have'nt been asked to.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Geezer, given that you don't credit Bush or his Cronies with much intelligence, a point on which we are in agreement,
Wouldn't you still respect the posibility then, that barring getting into the whitehouse on his own merits, there are bigger players behind the scenes that helped to prop him up as President?
There always are. Under present campaign finance laws, unless you have backers with deep pockets, you don't get elected to national office. I suspect that the Democrats who win congressional seats in November and the Presidency in 2008 will be beholdin' to George Soros and the like bigtime. I am uncomfortable with the thought of a world as Mr. Soros would like it.
Quote:
Most of us on the left do think he's too stupid to be the devil, but this man's policies are evil, even if he doesn't understand that. True he is no Lex Luther criminal mastermind, but his lack of intelectual curiosity is a type of evil.
we could spend all day separating the sinner from the sin. We could bother to distinguish between what Bush does and what Bush is, and maybe that's all worth debating, but the fact of the matter is he does lots of evil, even if he isn't.
Thinking about it, I believe I have more trouble with the incessant use of the word "evil" than anything else. Just because someone disagrees wiht you over policy does not make them evil. Misguided maybe, wrong, foolish, supporting different values. But "evil" implies both a black/white dicotomy and a presumption of malice on the part of the one you disagree with. I don't see this as a useful paradigm in realworld politics, when used by either side.
Quote:
'Dark-side of the force conspiracy theories' are hardly what most of us on the left subscribe to. But self-interest is a dark force in-and-of itself, and when the selfish interests of the few have like a hundred times more representation(the power of the mighty dollar) than the needs of the rest of the populace, I don't care how evil these people themselves are, their actions are greedy, their results are evil.
I don't know. I've seen folks here segue seamlessly from Iraq to election fraud to disaster relief to 9/11 complicity to plans for world domination to mind-control and pedophilia conspiricies embracing the highest ranks of both parties as well as major politicians around the world. All these things delivered with the same strident, true-believer tone of a fundamentialist Christian announcing the coming of the Rapture. At some point it gets so wacky I just can't take any of it seriously any more.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:When someon chooses to enrich a small group at the expense of everyone else and kills hundred of thousands in the process, is that not "evil"? Was Hitler "evil"? Where does "disagreement" and "different values" end and "evil" being? Or does "evil" even exist in your world view?
Thinking about it, I believe I have more trouble with the incessant use of the word "evil" than anything else. Just because someone disagrees wiht you over policy does not make them evil.
Quote:Yet another reference to your vaunted knowledge of politics.So tell me again Geezer- why hasn't Bush been indicted yet?
I don't see this as a useful paradigm in realworld politics, when used by either side.
Quote:I've seen folks segue seamlessly from "WMD east west north south somewhat of Baghdad and Tikrit" to "democracy on the march" to the flypaper theory of GWOT to "last throes" small government to massive deficits and the system works that at some point it gets so whacky that I can't take it seriously anymore either. Sorry if I've lumped you in with the fools and nutjobs, it's just so hard to make distinctions anymore.
I don't know. I've seen folks here segue seamlessly from Iraq to election fraud to disaster relief to 9/11 complicity to plans for world domination to mind-control and pedophilia conspiricies embracing the highest ranks of both parties as well as major politicians around the world. All these things delivered with the same strident, true-believer tone of a fundamentialist Christian announcing the coming of the Rapture. At some point it gets so wacky I just can't take any of it seriously any more.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So tell me again Geezer- why hasn't Bush been indicted yet?
Well, I can see two options.
1. There is some powerful mysterious force preventing even the most rabidly anti-Bush Democratic legislators from making valid impeachment charges which, even if they didn't result in a vote for removal, would politically embarrass the President and his party weeks before the Dems best chance to regain control of Congress in the past decade.
2. He hasn't done anything for which he could sucessfully be charged, much less indicted.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
...Sorry if I've lumped you in with the fools and nutjobs...
Hey, leave us fools and nutjobs out of this!
Quote:
When someon chooses to enrich a small group at the expense of everyone else and kills hundred of thousands in the process, is that not "evil"?
Look, I'm left of ...Marx, but I gotta' agree with Geezer when he says President Bush isn't evil. In my home state, I am most certainly in the minority in regards to political ideology. I am, therefore, surrounded by Bush supporters. Not conservatives, as those are two very different things.
Of the many Bush supporters that I know, very few are evil. They do have different priorities, but most believe, as does Bush, that they have the country's best interests in mind. They believe that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate the economy. They believe that fighting the terrorists in Iraq will keep us safe at home. They believe that socialized medicine will be a disaster and ruin our system, etc, etc, etc...
While they're wrong (
), that doesn't make them evil. Instead, I would argue that they are mislead and myopic, as is the President.As to whether or not Geezer is a Bush supporter, I think I may have a very simple way to find out. Geezer's hunting story above may have indicated that his hunting vacation began and ended here in the Old Dominion.
If that is the case, Geezer, are you planning to vote Maccaca or sluts at Annapolis? A Maccaca vote is, most assuredly, a proxy vote for President Bush.
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I agree that throwing the word evil around is not very useful when it is undefined. So lets define it a little.
Maybe how we define evil should be results oriented. Lets say Poverty and hunger are evils in the world. De facto slavery is evil. Faccism is evil. No holds barred destruction of the biosphere is evil. And by 'evil,' I mean that all or most of us can agree that such results are bad.
Then activities and policies, no matter what their supposed intent, which cause more of these things, are evil. We even say in discussion, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," so to absolve people of doing harm because they do not see it is fair to a point...
but when you continue to try to educate them and they refuse to see because the facts are in contradiction to their own self-interests, when they even misrepresent or obscure the truth in order to further their own interests,
why can't we define their behavior as evil?
As was said in Batman Begins - "It's not who you are inside that matters, but what you do that defines you."
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Quote:"Typical Joe" Bush supporters are by and large misguided or so terribly frightened that they'll do anything to feel safer. But the WEALTHY and POLITICAL Bush supporters- the DeLays, Abramoffs, Cheneys, etc. know EXACTLY what they're doing. Do you really think that they're trying to "stimulate the economy" through tax cuts??? Believe me, they're not as stupid as Bush.
Of the many Bush supporters that I know, very few are evil. They do have different priorities, but most believe, as does Bush, that they have the country's best interests in mind. They believe that cutting taxes for the rich will stimulate the economy. They believe that fighting the terrorists in Iraq will keep us safe at home. They believe that socialized medicine will be a disaster and ruin our system, etc, etc, etc...
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:OOHHHhhhhh Slick, you are so misguided. My views are and have always been far more extremist than you know. You give your self far too much importance in my political views and life.
I get endless giggles out of imagining you and Rue spending all your spare time either fuming in anger over some minor point or fixatedly poring through years of old posts to come up with an exact percentage of the time I've defended Bush's positions. I'm proud to consider myself at least partially responsible for your increasingly radical and extremist views.
Quote:You know, middle age paranoia tends to start in retired men of 'some' accomplishment who feel a englarged sense of importance. That sounds an awful lot like you.
But what's really the best is that you both can't even envision anyone disagreeing with you who's not part of some vast hidden conspiracy with unstated but obviously evil goals. Paranoia strikes deep, indeed.
Quote:So you've already said.
As for Bush? Hell, I didn't even vote for the guy, in either election.
Quote:I do not think Bush is even average intelligence, and additionally there are some serious holes in his character and neurology. Bush is a pawn, and he will be exposed over time by the political machine that put him there so that the next person in line will look good by comparison. I don't think everyone else is either that bright or that united. I call Iraq 'the perfect storm of mendacity'. Everyone had some unclean interest in the same thing and overdetermined the result.
I doubt he and his cronies are bright enough to carry out the complex, secretive, and sinister plans you credit them with. I consider him a below par President presented with problems greater than he can handle. I actually have some sympathy for his plight, which is what lead me to expound alternatives to the "Evil Bush" in the first place, but then it just became too much fun to stop.
Quote:Please explain this conspiracy to me. I'd be interested in what you think it is.
Well, it's been real(or maybe surreal), but every game must end. I'll leave you guys on Conspiracy World and see if there's any rational discourse left out there in RWD land.
So anyway, I'd also be interested in why you think you're so pivotal to anyone.
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Notice how Geezer avoided the whole embarassing "what is evil?" question? That's another pile of shit stuck to his shoe.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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