Where Joss blew it

POSTED BY: SimonWho
UPDATED: Thursday, October 26, 2006 01:06
VIEWED: 8374
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SIMONWHO

Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:46 PM

Remember the first scene in Buffy? Cute girl follows a menacing looking guy who breaks into school. Scary noises, girl seeming frightened and then... she bites the man!

As a representation of Buffy, it's almost perfect. Ignoring the fact that none of the main cast are in that bit, this teaser sets up that we're in for a scary show but also one that is going to turn convention on its head.

Now remember the openings of Serenity (the pilot) and The Train Job. Serenity starts with a big battle with spaceships and the Train Job starts with a bar fight, clearly not set on Earth or the present (lots of vague stuff, but the window Mal gets thrown through is the clincher).

Why didn't they (and by they, I mean Joss) got for a beginning with impact? In Serenity they could have worked it a bit differently but The Train Job was really simple: just play it as though they're in 1871, with a Northern oaf mocking Mal and co. They argue and fight in just the same way, leading up to the edge of the cliff, though skipping Mal calling for help from Wash. Then "I'm thinking we'll rise again" and suddenly with no advance warning, there's a damn spaceship appearing behind them!

That's an impact. What we got was mild character stuff - you can have that in the pilot but you've got to do something to grab the audience (and the preview critic's) attention in the first few minutes.

Maybe this oversight was due to the hurried writing of the episode. Maybe it was just because Joss was (by his own admission) blindly assuming that all the other non-creative things were working themselves out and that he didn't have to grab the audience in the same way as he did with Buffy. But it was a mistake.

Or do you disagree?

STORYMARK

Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:58 PM

I disagree. I think it's a gross oversimplification to say either that the success of Buffy was due to one scene, or the quick demise of Firefly was due to a lack of such a scene.

Not everything needs to start the same. Lots of successfull shows have started without a twist beginning.

I would have been somewhat dissapointed if Firefly had started in such a way, simply because that's how Buffy and Angel started out - and Joss is far more than a one-trick-pony.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:04 PM

Where Joss blew it:

"Make sure the people buying your show actually want it. That was a big one." --Joss, on lessons learned

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NECROSCAPE

Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:48 PM

I think right from the get go to lead on the future aspect is a much better way to grab an audience. Otherwise they'd think it's just a western if they're flipping the channels. And if they did sit down to watch the show then they saw the advertisments, you can't hide the plot in your promos. In any case, I think the holographic window was ingenius, could definetly not do without it.

THOLO

Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:48 PM

I dont think i was all Joss's fault in the first place. Fox didnt trailer it and showed them in wrong order(at different time i might add). they wanted more simpsons crap and didnt get it. so they screwed it up from the get go. it didnt even get a fair try. that is what pisses me off. and then since nobody (beside us) saw firefly, people had no clue what serenity was about. they release serenity in september , one of the worse time of the year to release a movie. i mean come on!! that is why i think firefly/serenity is not at the top of everybodys(besides us) christmas list. word of mouth has worked but it will not be enough i think to pull serenity our of its tail spin.

dont get me wrong i am buying/telling everybody about it, and unless i force it on them(which we cant do) then they just kinda go "huh" and that is the last i hear about it from them. ya know??

we need the star wars expanded universe style for firefly/serenity. comics, books, posters, and heck ruttin card games, anything to boost $$ for the verse. i think then we will see a new tv show or a BDS! but if they wont make it then we cant buy it. it turns to us to make tshirts (and get in trouble for it).that is what lucas wanted to finish the first star wars, mech. rights. and if he could put it on an stick of gum he did. joss may not be able to go that extream but do something. i still think comics are the way to go, and books. posters would be cool too. oh and bedsheets, oh and undeer-roos, oh and uh well never mind, haha

i just hope someone on this board knows joss and tells him to do something, cause we want it and we will support it, as long as he wants to give it to us, uh in a no sly kinda way, hhehe.

thanks for hearing me out.

Keep Flying!!

SIMONWHO

Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:04 PM

The thing is, Joss has said that he wasn't paying the right amount of attention to the network. He made a fantastic show, as we all know, but that's not necessarily enough.

I don't think giving your opening episode a big hook at the start is gimicky - most shows do it, they try to intrigue the audience in. And it's not as though this decision only affected what people saw when the show first aired - they would have done test screenings and audience ratings and if those had been more positive, Fox would have put more backing behind the show.

Get people hooked, then you can do the lengthy character study over 7 seasons.

ECGORDON

Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:08 PM

The only way in which Joss "blew it" is by trusting FOX in the first place.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

ATIGDNG

Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:14 PM

I don't agree there, I personally am NOT a buffy fan, it is lame and cheesy to me, nothing is convincing. And it is definitly not a serious tv series. The ONLY thing I liked about the first season of buffy was angel.

TRAVELER

Friday, October 20, 2006 12:02 AM

Buffy and Firefly are not that much different. But Buffy was made for a younger market. They highschool students and that's who watched it, well besides me. Firefly was aimed at an older audience. So the pace is going to be different. But if you watched both you saw the characters go through changes with the conflicts they faceed. Look what happened to Willow when her lover was killed. So these things would have been in Firefly if it had lasted as long as Buffy. Jayne and River were both changing in the few episodes Joss made.

I'm sure FOX wanted more action, because they turned down "Serenity" and Joss had to come up with "The Train Job". That is where the confusion started. Fox thought they were getting another Buffy, and Joss is not like that. His mind is searching for new concepts. He wanted to do something different. Firefly threw FOX off balance and they panicked, instead of sitting back and really seeing what they had. I have seen this happen at other networks. It could have happened on CBS or NBC. They have done similar mistakes. Rod Serling had a difficult time when he tried to produce a western that made you think. I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I don't think it lasted as long as Firefly. The network wanted a shoot em up western and Serling is not that kind of writer. So you have conflicts when your network is surprized by the content of the program. If Joss does another TV show I would not be surprized if it is totally different from Buffy and Firefly. Joss wants to do a lot of different things. What he will do is what is in front of his brain when he is given the green light again.
And Joss won't know that until it happens.

Traveler

NOSADSEVEN

Friday, October 20, 2006 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

{snip}... The Train Job was really simple: just play it as though they're in 1871, with a Northern oaf mocking Mal and co. They argue and fight in just the same way, leading up to the edge of the cliff, though skipping Mal calling for help from Wash. Then "I'm thinking we'll rise again" and suddenly with no advance warning, there's a damn spaceship appearing behind them!

That's an impact. What we got was mild character stuff ... {snip}

I disagree that those changes would make more of an impact, unless you were going for WTF.

Aside from the fact that if Mal didn't make the call first, you'd have no idea who or what the spaceship was there for, much less how they knew to come... There's nothing in Mal's call to Wash that would lead you to assume a spaceship was coming (other than commercials or previews), and even presuming it will be a spaceship making a grand entrance, there's no reason to expect it to come up from below them. But because Mal made the call, when that grand entrance happens, you know exactly who it is and why they're there.

And for Mal's 'rise again' line, as it is, you know exactly what he's talking about and get the joke as he's saying it. If he said it first it'd be more of a 'Huh?.. Oh." as the ship came up. I personally prefer to have some expectation of what is to come, rather than be 'dazzled' by some trick or twist that comes out of nowhere. And remember, Joss's breaking of conventions is only so effective because he also follows them.

Now, personally, I missed the first ten minutes of TTJ when it aired on FOX. (And felt like I had missed a lot more. In fact, I figured I had missed the pilot somehow...) So I can't speak to the first-viewing impact of that scene so much. But I can tell you it was the convention-busting kicking Crow through the engine that earned Firefly a spot on my absolutely-must-not-miss list (despite still being a little bit confused about who and what everyone was).

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Ain't. We. Just.

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