Should I get Dark Angel?
POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Sunday, November 12, 2006 00:49
VIEWED: 6408
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:The first and the last were my two favourites.
Originally posted by Calhoun:
Well, I just watched the pilot and it didnt suck!
Actually I quite liked it.
Keep us posted on how ya like it, or how ya don't..
Chrisisall 524
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
On one hand you slam it for being a rip-off, and on the other for not doing what Buffy did so well itself. You can't have it both ways.
"You can't have it both ways" is one of the most inaccurate, insane, or 'desperate to defend a show' responses I have seen in a while.
The history of television is filled with rip-off's of previously created shows that lack the spark that made the original work. In fact, my philosophy on television is one or two good ideas come along each year, then the next year will be filled with so many rip-offs that try to emulate the successful show, but lack the spark that made the successful show work. Not only will the rip-offs stink, but they will dilute the original to seem to be not as good because they are associated with the rip-offs that followed them.
I don't think there has been a successful television show in the last 30 years that didn't have a show try to copy it's formula but miss the 'it' that made the original so good.
Whether Dark Angel is a Buffy rip-off at all may be open to debate, I wouldn't know, as the only episode I have ever seen was the pilot, and that was just a month ago. But to say a show can't both be a rip-off and not do what the original did to be good....I am sure you can go back and find a better way to get your point across than that.
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Quote:I just meant that yeah, it could have copied Buffy very well- if that's what it intended to do. But it didn't. So to yell about Dark Angel being a copy of Buffy... just makes no sense...if it was a copy, then it would be a lot more like the original, the fact that it isn't that close should be proof that they weren't trying to copy it.
Originally posted by patsrule:
I am sure you can go back and find a better way to get your point across than that.
He was trying to slam it on two counts: It's a copy, and a bad copy- I'm sayin' it's not a copy, that's why it's a bad copy.
My brain hurts now Chrisisall
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I don't think James Cameron needs to steal from anyone, much less Joss, and I don't give a frak what Harlan Ellison would have to say on the subject.
Dark Angel was no more a copy of Buffy than Buffy was a copy of The Fearless Vampire Killers.
The fact that Buffy is the better series (sorry Chris) is beside the point.
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Quote:You tryin' to make me angry?
Originally posted by ecgordon:
The fact that Buffy is the better series (sorry Chris) is beside the point.
Don't make me angry Mr. Ecgordon. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
<---see? All green?Just kidding...time and repeated viewings has proved Buffy the superior series *gasp* But...my fondness for DA remains higher.
Rational Chrisisall
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(sigh)
Chris, I've read many of your aggressive posts to ppl in the past. I wondered when the day would arrive when we might butt horns.
I believe the time is now.
"The rest of your analysis is just wrong. Logan as Watcher? No way."
The comparison is quite apt. In BTVS the slayer (buffy, faith, Nikki, Kendra,....whomever) is a simple directionless warrior for goodness without a watcher. The watcher serves the storytellers purpose of a means for introducing, and resolving plot (the adventures the slayer gets into) Many episodes of BTVS involve an external threat that is identified by Giles. Giles provides buffy with information needed for the slayer to meet the threat. Then when the threat is resolved the watcher may or may not have a moment at the end of an episode to explain what transpired to give us, the viewers, closure. This was the recipe for the early 3 seasons before Joss reinvented the show in season 4. Now examine Max's friend Logan. Logan is the character of this show that serves the same purpose as Giles, that is he introduces plot in the form of information for max then resolves plot at the end of an episode. Instead of a Watcher's library, Logan has his extensive contacts and his hacking prowess. Occasionally he needs external information to reach a conclusion regarding a subject just like Giles. EXAMPLE: Giles: "Buffy, I need you to go the dark cript in the cemetary and retrieve an object of great value that will shed light on the current issue." Logan: "Max, I need you to sneak into the sector police station #4 records room and pull a case file that was sealed from public knowledge. The information in the file will help shed light on the current issue"
You say "Logan as a watcher, no way" without understanding the use of the character as a plot device. Quote:
Max had dark wavy hair (season 1) the only real similarity to Faith.
Dark hair is but small part regarding the subject of copied character. You see only the surface. Faith and Max are both remarkably similar in attitude and focus. Prior to her turn to evil in the last half of season 3, Faith serves as a perfect sounding board for Max. Are they going to be utterly the same? Of course not. Even identical twins are never perfectly identical in personality. But I think everyone can see where James Cameron pulled his ideas from
Quote:
The lingo? Future, hello? Whatever.
Who said anything about lingo? Read over my post and show me where I was talking about lingo or slang.
I was talking about the poorly delivered lines we get from Alba. Sometimes telling us something she just told us like we didn't get it the first time. When a book writer or a TV writer tells then re-tells his/her audience a thing it means one of 2 things. 1. The writer doesn't trust the audience to understand his point or 2. The writer is unaware he is repeating himself. If you want a great example of this kind of foolish writing read the 1st expanded Dune novel "House Atredies" by frank herbert's son Brian. All Brian can do is repeat himself again and again. James Cameron did the same thing with Max episode to episode. Add to that the wooden way the lines come off and you simply have inferior writing. That's all. It's not Alba's fault. She's delivering the lines she was told to deliver. Lay it at cameron's feet.
Quote:
On one hand you slam it for being a rip-off, and on the other for not doing what Buffy did so well itself. You can't have it both ways.
I'm not sure if this is worth responding to. There is no "Both Ways" there. The two subjects are part of the same thing. There are in fact several other issues that all blend into the overall negative picture.
Look, I'm not going to grade Cameron's work as an F. It's more like a C-. He has some characters I like. Max's friend at work that covers for her absenses is very funny. Boss: "Where's Max?" friend (without missing a beat) "Max has been selected as one of 3 finalists in a contest..."
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Quote:You want to see agressive?
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
(sigh)
Chris, I've read many of your aggressive posts to ppl in the past. I wondered when the day would arrive when we might butt horns.
I believe the time is now.
You picked the wrong battle THIS time my friend!
*eyes turn white*
Dark Angel was NOT lifted from Faith as you erroneously postulate...
*grows out of his shirt*
Max beat Faith's ass...
*all green*
RAHHHHHHGH!
Quote:'M' in the Bond films, Obiwan in Star Wars, Gandalf in LOTR, Mick in Rocky...films fairly brim with examples of this plot device, did Cameron also lift from these?
The comparison is quite apt. In BTVS the slayer is a simple directionless warrior for goodness without a watcher. The watcher serves the storytellers purpose of a means for introducing, and resolving plot
Giles helped Buffy tune and expand her abilities, did Logan do that for Max?
Giles frequently joined the fray, could Logan?
Logan had resources in and outside the law to help him, did Giles?
Logan had the hots for Max, did Giles for Buffy?
The similarities are there, to be sure, but no more similar than in many other books and movies.
Quote:Pouty, dark hair and outfit, and given to ass-whooping I'll give you that. Different personality, sense of purpose, fighting style, ethnic background and dynamic with her partner.
Dark hair is but small part regarding the subject of copied character. You see only the surface. Faith and Max are both remarkably similar in attitude and focus. Prior to her turn to evil in the last half of season 3, Faith serves as a perfect sounding board for Max. Are they going to be utterly the same? Of course not. Even identical twins are never perfectly identical in personality. But I think everyone can see where James Cameron pulled his ideas from
Quote:Purely subjective; I also like the Ford narration in Blade Runner.
I was talking about the poorly delivered lines we get from Alba.
Quote:We must agree to disagree here, I think DA's first season was solid 'A' material.
Like I said, Dark Angel gets a C-. It was 80's quality TV. The bar is much higher now.
But I enjoy the banter with ya, no hard feelings, okay?
Transgenically obsessed Chrisisall, who also loves Buffy
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I think DA's first season was solid 'A' material.
Then how do you rate firefly? A+? In my schooling, a 4.0 was all one could hope to achieve.
I measure all things to what I consider "A" works. Firefly, Dune books 1-6, and Neil Gaiman's Sandman series for Vertigo Comics all get A's. An "A" is a hard thing to recieve.
Here's a question. Who wins in a straight up fist fight twixt Faith and Max? Only ponder this if you have absoutely nothing better to do.
Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.
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I got hooked on it in reruns recently. I am dying to get the DVD!
----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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I am halfway through the first season and it has its enjoyable moments though I honestly cant compare DA to Firefly because quite frankly there is no comparison. I think Buffy is about 75%-80% as good as Firefly and Dark Angel is only about 80% as good as Buffy.
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