Once they introduced Gunn, Angel lost it's edge.
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, December 2, 2006 21:08
VIEWED: 7833
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Quote:Since when did Angel lose its edge?
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
Gunn streetwise? How about streetdork.
The actor was fine, they just couldn't write a real black street kid with smarts and natural leadership ability.
Gunn came off as a comic book character, and they totally mishandled him. He finally got something interesting to do in season 5, but mostly he was wasted IMHO.
As for Gunn, I’ll admit the character was not my favorite but neither was he a drag on the show. Sometimes he managed to pull off the streetwise thing and sometimes he didn’t, but then that aspect of his character is largely dropped by Season Three.
Joss and the other writers mention several times that the character was often troublesome for them because while they liked Gunn and they liked J. August Richards, it could be difficult to place him in the team--he didn’t quite fit into a special niche in the ensemble. He doesn’t have Wesley’s knowledge of demons and magic, nor Cordy’s visions, nor Fred’s knowledge of science, nor Lorne’s empathic abilities, and while he’s often referred to as “the muscle,” he doesn’t have Angel’s superstrength or resistance to conventional weaponry. In seasons one and two, he is able to bring in additional resources as leader of his own crew, but as he becomes increasingly involved in Angel’s cases he loses those outside contacts and resources. His story arc in season two is all about him deciding that he can do more good working with Angel and realizing that means walking away from his old position and his old neighborhood. I suspect that the writers were trying to portray him as “streetwise” to help give him some ability that no one else on the ensemble had, to justify his place on the show as they pulled him away from his old gang. Yet that aspect of him tended to vanish after season two, besides the occasional callback for continuity’s sake.
In seasons three and four, the writers show Gunn grappling with consequences of his decision in season two by using a technique Joss often relies on when he has a problem writing something: he makes the writers’ problem the character’s problem. In those two middle seasons, Gunn begins to feel that he’s extraneous to the Fang Gang, that maybe he made the wrong choice. He’s trying to find his place there, and can’t seem to manage it, and this bothers him a great deal, especially since the only role he seems able to fulfill is that of the “muscle,” which does not please him since anybody who can carry an axe can be “muscle.” Those fears and concerns that were developed over those two season are what underlie his storyline in Season Five, Chris—his well-developed fears of inadequacy and uselessness are what help make him the most eager to accept W&H’s deal, since it finally gave him his own unique space. Made him feel special, and useful.
And as for Gunn lacking natural leadership qualities, I certainly didn’t see him that way. I felt he was capable of being a leader and indeed used to it--although when we first see him, he quickly becomes vulnerable after the loss of his sister and this vulnerability, combined with his deep sense of guilt over failure, undermine his authority and ability to lead. Still, I very much bought him as a leader and also liked that part of his story arc particularly in season two was about him struggling to learn how to follow someone else’s lead after years of being the guy in charge. To see how much Gunn changes from his past self, one need only look at “Spin the Bottle” from Season Four, one of the show’s best episodes. There, we get an example of Gunn being a leader and taking charge, as well as butting heads with another would-be leader. This episodes reveals both his strengths as well as his weaknesses as a leader and as a character pre-Angel.
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Quote:Groosalug is right; I must Netflix S3 and S4.
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
To see how much Gunn changes from his past self, one need only look at “Spin the Bottle” from Season Four, one of the show’s best episodes. There, we get an example of Gunn being a leader and taking charge, as well as butting heads with another would-be leader. This episodes reveals both his strengths as well as his weaknesses as a leader and as a character pre-Angel.
Knew it would come to this Chrisisall
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Quote:Nitpick: Kirk is the wacky townie.
Originally posted by amyel:
Sean Gunn is an actor who played two different parts on AtS (in Hero and She--one demon in heavy makeup, one human, respectively) but is mostly known for playing wacky townie Kurt on Gilmore Girls.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I think that Gunn was usually just distracting or annoying or...there. Just there. But I felt like his character became worth it in the end. He had the place that Xander had in the later seasons: he was just there in a mercenary capacity and had no special abilities to weave him neatly into the story. He was the person standing on the outside looking in. The 5th wheel. Everyone's been in that position at one point or another during their life...where you're no longer useful and wonder "what am I doing here? what's my purpose? do I have one anymore?"
I felt like he was useful and I liked his character. The only thing I really didn't like was his relationship with Fred...not for racial reasons because I've dated interracially before, just because their personalities just didn't fit to me at all and it all seemed kind of silly.
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I'm a leaf on the wind...watch how I soar.
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I think Gunn's character was ok to begin with, but when he fell in love with Fred...that started the downslide. He got softer which was sorta ok I guess but he also got mushy. BAD MOOVE. Mushy Gunn is lame Gunn in my opinion, and as segments of him with Fred dotted that season it gave the season a bad taste. Although, mushy Gunn aside, it was a pretty good season.
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Gunn was a good charachter....up until J. August Richards had to act like a hot-shot lawyer.
He does an okay job of it (as he plays to this day) but never really pulled it off IMO. He was better when he just wanted to hit people.
Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?
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Funny, season 5 was when I liked him the most...
Gunn-toting Chrisisall
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Gunn..? Season 5....? LIKED??????
You've got to be kidding. 
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Quote:No, I finally liked him.
Originally posted by BuffyAngelfreak:
Gunn..? Season 5....? LIKED??????
You've got to be kidding.
You got a problem wit dat?????
Gunn-shooting Chrisisall
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Ugghhhhh.......double post....................the pain..................
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