Into the fire..Enjoy this ...Let the debate begin

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Anti, whether or not you like the fact, these intolerant, bigoted, racist fanatics are representing your belief system to others - and yes I know it's a distortion of that belief system, but AS IT IS PRACTICED, about 80% of the "Christians" I run into are like that, and thus, by their actions they define what the "Christian Belief" is, as a whole, in this country today.

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true.. but like what? shallow, materialistic, bigotted, racist, indifferent biased prejudiced degenerative... i mean, is this just the christians? no, its every single person on earth... what makes you athiests, agnostics or others out their any different? the difference is that you dont have a set belief system that can be attacked like christians do... but scrutinze Jesus' word all you want, and you will be hard pressed to find him condone anything other than love and tolerance, so what gives? mans fallen nature, the reason why ANY HUMAN BEING SINS

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Are their actions Christlike ?
Mayhaps, cause ole JC was NOT the nice guy you seem to think he was, hypocritical, tempermental, and on occasion downright nasty.

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i assume thats your sarcasm

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I have known devout people, in fact, since I deal with child-protection issues I run into a lot of devout folk, both fanatical and more reasonable, and since it is an issue that crosses all lines of belief, it's quite possible on my days off to see a couple of protestants, muslims, catholics, neopagans and at least one fairly mellow astaru sharing coffee and muffins with me while we discuss matters in a civil and logical fashion - so I know religion doesn't make people who practice it intolerant pyschotic nutwads.

But a lot of them who practice it ARE pyschotic nutwads and the greater majority of them are representative of what the Christian Belief System has become whether you like it or not - in fact if I held to the beliefs you do, I would be ashamed to call myself Christian, and would work at finding some better way to define the gulf between those who practice it in that manner, and how you practice it.

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*edit- i like to think i practice what Jesus preaches, but even i fail sometimes; i think christianities fault is that they either have not truly read the scriptures, or dont fully believe its message... both of which compromise its effectiveness. when i read the bible, i absorb it, contemplate and theorize.. it takes hold in me; and i dont forget something that God says will bring destruction upon myself

as for crazy people, yah its true..but is it just christians, or is it the whole of society in general? arent we being a little stereotypical, and biased..when we call out christians for their sins, yet leave the rest of society free of blame? yet i try not to accuse groups of people of their imperfections, because God says i have no right to judge others. what the bible does is it exposes those imperfect actions so that people, as individuals, will prevent themselves from acting immorally BEFORE it happens

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And like it or not, when someone tells me they are Christian, it does trigger a certain restrained hostility from me until they prove that they are NOT a rabid fundamentalist lunatic looking for some unbelievers to persecute, the actions of those who profess the belief as a general rule have lead to this.

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do i live in another country? where are these masses of helpless unbelievers being persecuted by gangs of hooded christians? dont kid yourself, American society is far more hostile toward Jesus, then Jesus is toward American society

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Nothin against YOU mind, cause unlike the great majority of them you have actually READ the book, and have some understanding of it - not to say I agree with you cause I most certainly don't, but at least you understand the belief you hold.

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look, i think you for the compliment(i think), but take this from me as someone who takes my faith very seriously; these peoples actions are not in any way supported by the scriptures

Clear en

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Originally posted by antimason:
i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect? well we dont claim to be either.. but Jesus' says it best when he says

"why do you point out the speck in your brothers eye, yet fail to recognize the plank in your own? you hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers.."

man is inherintly imperfect..but recognizing those imperfections, exposing them, and humbling yourself to change for the better is all part of growing spiritually; that is all the bible can be asked to do. who are you to judge these people? atleast they are trying to spread a message of love and tolerance.. there are millions of other things we are exposed to on a daily basis which compromise and rob our spiritual nature.. like the degenerative immorality that the media exploits whoreshly, yet we never hear any complaints about those influences, its Jesus' that everyone has a problem with

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If someone had told Jesus that every comment he ever made would be written down, taken out of context and applied to every human situation from now until the end of time, do you think He would have said anything at all?

Antimason, you're taking Jesus out of context here. He wasn't preaching against judgement per se, He was preaching against harsh and unjust judgement, and against hypocricy. Jesus called on people to be discerning, but Jesus really hated hypocricy--almost more than anything, didn't He? When you call someone a hypocrite, you're judging them. Jesus judged a lot of people, not the least of which were the pharisees whom he termed "offspring of vipers." Did he take up the whip against the money changers 'cause he loved them so?

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" taken out of context as you have done here, is preaching fear. "Fear the Judgement." Old, old testament stuff. Jesus didn't want us to be a bunch of fearful p.c. yes-men, did He? When He said that He brought a sword, that He came to set son against father, was he kidding?

You wanna have it both ways, you want to judge America as the Great Whore and turn around and shame folks here for judging Christians. What do you think Jesus would say to that?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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If someone had told Jesus that every comment he ever made would be written down, taken out of context and applied to every human situation from now until the end of time, do you think He would have said anything at all?

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i dont believe it would have changed anything; i think everything has happened this way for a reason, that Jesus and his disciples were destined to record his message and allow its to carry itself based on its merits

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Antimason, you're taking Jesus out of context here. He wasn't preaching against judgement per se, He was preaching against harsh and unjust judgement, and against hypocricy. Jesus called on people to be discerning, but Jesus really hated hypocricy--almost more than anything, didn't He? When you call someone a hypocrite, you're judging them. Jesus judged a lot of people, not the least of which were the pharisees whom he termed "offspring of vipers." Did he take up the whip against the money changers 'cause he loved them so?

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" taken out of context as you have done here, is preaching fear. "Fear the Judgement." Old, old testament stuff. Jesus didn't want us to be a bunch of fearful p.c. yes-men, did He? When He said that He brought a sword, that He came to set son against father, was he kidding?

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but Jesus clearly says "watch out for false teachers and their destruction" and "with such people do not even eat", because those who twist Gods word are doing the an incredibly injustice to our faith and to everyone.

i agree... Jesus didnt want a bunch of P.C. push overs, but he didnt want us to prosecute and persecute people for their flaws or unbelief either, which is my point. there are many references, such as in revelation, that makes the analogy of Gods word being spoken of as a sword from the mouth... so i believe that when father is turned against son, it will be over the acceptance of Gods word and the gospel. i agree with you otherwise, to label a hypocrite is to judge, but how are you to expose what is a perversion otherwise?

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You wanna have it both ways, you want to judge America as the Great Whore and turn around and shame folks here for judging Christians. What do you think Jesus would say to that?

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i think America is Babylon, because christians have not followed Jesus' word accurately, and have passively accepted false doctrines to slip in... and have even gone as far as promoting these perversions. we are to expose inaccuracies right? if Jesus says "no one can serve two masters; you will love the one and hate the other; you cannot serve both God and money".. then where does that leave America? we have the most affluent christian population in the world, but by Gods standards we are the most idolatrous nation in existance aswell.. so which is it? that is why Babylon is the great harlot, who is an apostate nation who forsakes God and pursues idols made with our own hands... its all their in prophecy

edited* with some changes

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