Male and Female Imponderables--Delicate Sound of Thunder
POSTED BY: Tristan
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 15:41
VIEWED: 12364
PAGE 12 of 14
Quote:
Chrismoorhead wrote:
It's fine that you disagree, but could you explain further? How is trying to be strong a weakness?
I'll try. You are strong in your beliefs, but the way you present them sometimes has a way of turning others away. Part of being human is our connection with other. If you are always striving to be strong, you will become one dimensional. It takes a stronger person to understand that it's learning more about our weaknesses that makes us a better person.
If you want me to put it in battle terms, its like the Trojan Horse. The people of Troy were strong and confident that nothing could come through their walls. The Greeks found their overconfident feeling of safety, and they were able to come up with a way to sneak in the city.
If you build this image of a stong confident person that can't be hurt (or enjoys pain - I don't recall your exact words), will you be finding love, companionship, trust, empathy, compassion, or any of the other joys of life?
_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The search for mastery of the human feelings we experiece are detrimental to being human. Beware to anyone trying to do this. When the time comes that you wish to be truly human it is ten times harder to do so. And many experiences will be twice as intense. Human feelings are the basic elements of threat detection we have. Refining the treat detection is far more constructive then suppressing the feelings. And controlling your emotions isn't a brave or strong thing. Controlling your response is.
This should be the first rule of warfare: Exploit your enemy's strengths. Then they only have their weekness as a crutch.
Well. rambled enough. Goodnight everyone.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
NV,
WOW! Very profound. On those wonderful insights, good night.
_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
This should be the first rule of warfare: Exploit your enemy's strengths.
Hubba wha?!
Has this got something to do with the (imagined) war between the sexes? I mean, does this relate to the cliched axiom that any thing (one) worth having is worth fighting for?
I suppose that I'm having difficulty with the concept of "enemy", in the context of gender related imponderables. Oh, and, relax: I'm merely trying to maintain a sense of consistency to the thread, yep.
***
Never fearful of missing a point.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Cozen,
NVghostrider's comment was an answer to a question. We certainly hope there is no enemy. We need to be allies.
Now back to the imponderable thread. Thanks for steering us in the right direction. Since you raised the question, who would you fight for?
_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
My family, end of sentence.
I don't connect well with people around me, and many of them wouldn't give a second look if I fell down dead on the pavement (really callous folks that you'll see in the two towns we've got). Truth be told, if I was given the duty to fight for any of them, I'd walk the hell away. Too much risk, not enough reward. With my family, I'd fight because... Well, I would.
You might wonder why I didn't include my friends in that? First of all, they can stand up for themselves, second of all, I've had a heavy handful drift out of my life ten times more easily then they shoehorned their way in, and thirdly, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to pull of the adrenaline-soaked, fury-fueled frenzy I could muster for my family on my friends' behalf.
Well, it's midnight, my head hurts, and I'm going to sleep. Ciao.
--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
MSG - Yes I have actually. It's partly the fact that my interest in warfare began with Japan, and therefore was heavily influenced by Buddhism, that I believe what I do about controlling emotions.
I can see what you're saying about the average joe not be effected by war, but I'd hesitate very much to say that was the case, either. The most direct impact on non-combatants, of course, would depend on where the war's being fought. Ancient and medieval militaries weren't above pillaging or using peasants as cannon fodder on many occasions.
I'd say the next biggest impact is resources. Militaries on campaign were not shy about taking what they needed from wherever they can get it from. This translates into starvation and punitive damages to those who weren't able to provide for the army in the first place.
The list goes on, from conscription (which doesn't happen all the time but brings the peasants directly into the problem) to dealing with sanitation issues. I'd say war has and does have a very real impact on all nations involved in their entirety, not just the military.
ZEEK - I never claimed to have already accomplished control. Sure enough, I'm as far away from it as anyone else, and if you've read a number of my other posts from other threads, I admit my temper to be my weakest point. Maybe you should point that high powered perception back at yourself if you get off on pointing people's faults out to them?
VERSEEXPLORER - I think my having said "I have a hard time understanding why you think it's immature, unless your actual qualm is with the way I think it's accomplished." is equivalent to your "You are strong in your beliefs, but the way you present them sometimes has a way of turning others away.".
So, for once I'm starting off on the same page as someone else. That's good for both of us.
I will never think of myself as perfect, and striving to master emotion is not equal to striving to master existence.
If I may quote Lao Tzu, "Mastering others is strength Mastering yourself, makes you fearless.", and, "He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened.". Yes, I've read the Tao Teh Ching.
I really don't want this discussion to turn into who I am and what I want from life, so forgive me if I leave your final question unanswered.
NVHGHOSTRIDER - I just quoted Lao Tzu twice where he identifies mastering and knowing of yourself to make you fearless and enlightened, respectively. Are you saying you disagree with Lao Tzu?
Cause I certainly wouldn't hold that against you. I disagree with a great deal of things he's written, but it's up to each individual to take and leave what he will from teachers. I'm not aiming at suppression, only control. On that note, I can tell you what the first rule of warfare actually is: Know thine enemy. The second? Well, it seems that Lao Tzu and Sun Tzu are in agreement: Know thy self.
You must first know your enemy's and your own strengths and weaknesses, before you can know which to attack and with what.
[IMG]
"Pain is your friend, it is your ally. It will keep you awake, and angry, and remind you to finish the mission and get the hell home. But you know the best thing about pain? It let's you know that you're not dead yet."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SirFrancis:
As far as the belief that the medications will inhibit creativity, or cause personality changes, I have not lost any creativity. I still write, design theatre sets, and act. And my personality is more truly my own. When I was untreated for the BiPolar, there were times when I was a spectator in my own head. Not in control of what I was saying or doing. With the medications, I am more truly myself. So if that is a change in personality, I welcome it.
there is a special place in Hell for people who talk at the Theatre.
Firstly Hi Sir Frances (Bacon I presume) I don't think I have 'talked with you before... and from one thespian to another... welcome!
I too suffer from depression - I think I have talked about this before, but if started after a serious illness at the age of 29 and in retrospect I had signs that i was vulnerable to this disease prior to that. I too am creative and when I finally had a minor break down after a year of poor health and ever increasing depression I welcomed the opportunity to try medication - I have never looked back.
I put this part of your post in because it says what I was trying to figure out how to say in my mind whilst reading through everything here - gosh you guys go for it when I go to bed!!
I am lucky in that I had few, or no, side effects - when I was first on the meds I was put on and that the first ned I tried seems to be the one that works well for me - I know people with various forms of depression/anxiety disorders who have tried numerous and multiple drugs before finding one/a combination that works for them. I had a few minor side-effects at first... funnily enough loss of libido was one that diminished but wasn't an issue since I was too ill and 'disconnected' to think about having a relationship at that time...
I have described the worst period of depression as if I was working hard to do a passible impersonation of myself... trying so hard to look for my cues, react as I felt was expected of me and laugh as if I actually enjoyed things! It was a surprise to reconnect with aspects of my personality that I had forgotten existed prior to my initial illness and subsequen sprial into depression. I still think I look 'blank' in photos of me during this period - whether I was 'smiling' or not...
I am still creative, more clear headed, have a better memory (yes, depression affects your memory a lot!) and yes, in case none of you noticed... I have a healthy libido!
so I would not return to the bad old days for anything. I recently mentioned to a friend that it was like having asthma - if you are asthmatic you monitor your condition, and look after yourself accordingly. With depression it is a lot like that - I excersize my mind to be positive in relation to myself and talk things over when I feel 'stuck' or 'trapped' in a situation... I have lots of good friends in real life as well as here (I love you guys
) and I adjust my medication, with doctors knowlege, if/when it becomes nesc. Just as if you had a chronic lung condition you have to be prepared for the 'not-so-well-times' as well as the good ones! Thank you for bringing all this up - it has been a really good opportunity to talk over something that is dear to my heart as I feel 'demystifying' mental illness of any sort is really important in ourt society!
Also I have been richly blessed as a result of having had depression. I have made deep connections with others suffering with similar illnesses... and have been privileged to be there for those coming to terms with it too...
Love you - sorry for the ramble -
- Magda x x x
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Magdalena wrote:
Also I have been richly blessed as a result of having had depression. I have made deep connections with others suffering with similar illnesses... and have been privileged to be there for those coming to terms with it too...
Magda, you are an inspiration. I do believe we go through challenges in life to learn how to balance our lives and also to be there for others in similar situations. I am thankful that you were able to find a way out of the depression.
_______________________________
Mal: Saffron, you're pleasing, you're all kinds of pleasing, and uhh...it's been awhile, a long damn while, since anybody but me took a hold of my plow.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SirFrancis:
As far as the belief that the medications will inhibit creativity, or cause personality changes, I have not lost any creativity. I still write, design theatre sets, and act. And my personality is more truly my own. When I was untreated for the BiPolar, there were times when I was a spectator in my own head. Not in control of what I was saying or doing. With the medications, I am more truly myself. So if that is a change in personality, I welcome it.
I just wanted to comment on this and say I think it is those misdiagnosed medications that lead to a squishing of creative thought. And I know there are things that at times require medication, sometimes even permanent medication, but folk should not think everything is like that. If you, say, have chronic depression and don't do anything about it other than taking a pill, you are not going to get better. As DTH said, sometimes you need a push to get out of it, but then you can work on the cause and hopefully you won't need a chemical push again.
I have been depressed and I have beat it on my own. There were some lingering effects and I found (eventually) the proper homeopathic remedy for me, and that pushed away the lingering effects. I would say that was an instance where I required some outside help, even if it wasn't the currently traditional or totally acceptable form of outside help. It worked for me and I was happy again, I had no problems or side effects. I imagine that, much as with homeopathy, the right medication is important to find, carfully check and diagnose, and that then it will help. The problem I have right now is that many doctors seem keen to just hand out meds and see if it works, which is wrong.
I read a very interesting article about a year ago about the thin line between creative genius and madness. There actually is a connection. There's some kind of divider in your brain, and when it's thin you think creatively and 'outside the box' so to speak. You just see a little bit differently. When it's gone, however, you see so totally differently that you are insane. Interesting, eh?
And yeah, what nvg said. Master your response, and you will master yourself. Hard to put it better than that.
http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!
Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Gautama Siddharta
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME