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POSTED BY: IndigoStarblaster
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 18:52
VIEWED: 6460
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I'm terribly sorry to say, but this is a very childish thing to say. Especially given the existence of the FIREFLYFANS.NET Central section.
Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?
Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.
And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.
I'm no fan of Microsoft products. I run the official Universal Browncoat community (serenitymovie.com), and that's entirely PHP and MySQL based. I built it because I wanted a site with different features to here.
However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?
Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.
And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.
However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.
Thanks, Whoisriver. This is what I wanted to say, and how I should have said it. I shouldn't have been snarky, and have been thinking about this thread since last night.
"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"
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thank you, WhoIsRiver, for an intelligent and adult response to this degeneratoring thread.
Personally I've never found this site to be all that hard to cope with, and I don't find it that 'busy'
this is home and I kind of resent new people coming in and being rude and then blaming the rest of us for resenting the rudeness.
Besides, I think this site is WAY easier than:
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/start
which was really the only other good site back a couple of years ago (I did join that one, in 12/6/2002...I didn't get around to joining here until March 24, 2004, but this one really was already my home).
Personally I'm very grateful to Haken for maintaining this site, and on those rare occassions when it is down I am bereft.
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So, appertly, you all think I hate the site and want to distory it. When if you accualy *read* my posts you would see that, im mearly giveing suggestions on how to make the site better.
and IT IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLREADY SIGNED UP ON THIS SITE CAN USE IT. Really, you dont need to go on about how well you can use this site and and how every other fan is exacly like you and knows how to use every site on the internet. Because, even though you may know how to use this site, others may not. Do you know how long it took me to figure out just how to go back to the Catigory above the thred I was in? (well i dont rember the time frame exacly but it was really annoying for a while going all the way back to the fourm home.)
I am not saying that this site sucks. Not one bit. Im not saying that I hate the site. Not one bit. I love this site. EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE IN EXISTANCE NEEDS IMPROVMENTS, Not just this one. so STOP TAKING WHAT IM SAYING PERSONLY. Im trying to give ideas to the creator of the site, So that we can make this site even better then it allready is.
And would you stop saying that because i have only been registred for a short period of time that I cant have oppionions? I though this fourm was welcoming and nice? What Happend to that.
.....
ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)
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disregard, srever keeped timeing out
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So, appertly, you all think I hate the site and want to distory it. When if you accualy *read* my posts you would see that, im mearly giveing suggestions on how to make the site better.
and IT IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLREADY SIGNED UP ON THIS SITE CAN USE IT. Really, you dont need to go on about how well you can use this site and and how every other fan is exacly like you and knows how to use every site on the internet. Because, even though you may know how to use this site, others may not. Do you know how long it took me to figure out just how to go back to the Catigory above the thred I was in? (well i dont rember the time frame exacly but it was really annoying for a while going all the way back to the fourm home.)
I am not saying that this site sucks. Not one bit. Im not saying that I hate the site. Not one bit. I love this site. EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE IN EXISTANCE NEEDS IMPROVMENTS, Not just this one. so STOP TAKING WHAT IM SAYING PERSONLY. Im trying to give ideas to the creator of the site, So that we can make this site even better then it allready is.
And would you stop saying that because i have only been registred for a short period of time that I cant have oppionions? I though this fourm was welcoming and nice? What Happend to that.
.....
ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?
Did I say I was defending him? No. In fact, I explicitly said that I wasn't. I just stated explicitly that he had some valid points. Care to argue with that instead of defending childish comments?
And (s)he didn't say that (s)he wanted to take the site away from the owner. In fact, (s)he explicitly stated that (s)he wanted to work with Haken to get it done (Failing that possibly starting his/her own site. Or are you against that as his/her right to do?). Did you read the post, or just read into it?
Also, why am I getting flak from this, as I am only saying that the tech should change to meet the changing needs of the site, and that the site should be re-written (backend) as it is obvious that it needs it. Furthermore, I said nothing about changing the look and feel of the site (in my proposal I explicitly stated that that would stay the same). As I've said, it could use some re-organization as it looks quite busy (and confusing to some, just check to archives for proof), but that is hardly an "extreme problem" that I brought up (ubergeek owns that one). Also, I said that I didn't start the project as I didn't think that Haken would go for it (I would want to work WITH HIM). So, I sat in my corner and waited and submitted an ignored improvement to the site (even though several stated that it should be snaged). If ubergeek gets the go ahead from Haken, I'll join in.
BUT, I'll explicitly state here and now, that I will not be helping to make a "competing site" as I'm content with this one. Just needs some fixing.
Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.
And it's obvious that the M$ tech has become insufficient given all the problems that we've seen as of late. This isn't even debatable.
Furthermore, it is arguable that Haken is no longer maintaining the site, as he only fixes it when it breaks (and even then it may take days or more than a week to get fixed - no email notification anyone?). Also, I know that I've submitted bug reports up to several years ago, and every issue I've reported is still outstanding (I stopped sending them b/c of that). This spells no maintainence.
B/c I don't think that you're a developer, I think that I have to point out, that no matter how well designed a site is (backend) once in a while, it has to re-written from scratch. The reasons are various but acouple are:
- bugs resulting from a flawed design
- code becoming hard to read/maintain due to maintanence.
Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.
Some stability issues? Have you been here over the past couple months? The site has become so choked with requests that the DB can't handle the load (that's where I think that bulk of the problem lies as most errors are ODBC timeouts). Change to a faster/lower overhead DB anyone?
Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.
Actually, from http://www.fireflyfans.net/info.asp
"""
If you're interested in becoming a part of our team. Let me know.
"""
So, apparently he is open to help. I'd help closed or open, but any improv
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Quote:
Originally posted by ubergeek:
ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)
1) Assuming that this isn't run on a dedicated server right now, you going to pay for that?
2) Implementing paging for the threads would lessen the load on the DB as well as the pipe = better experience for everyone (this has been requested several times in the years that I've been here and obviously never done). So, far cheaper solution.
3) I understand that you're gung-ho about making suggestions for improvments, but lets not dig a hole in the back-yard with a bunker buster bomb, yes?
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Okay, where to begin.
First of all, this site IS on a dedicated server. MS-SQL is falling over as the database tables are a bit fucked.
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Also, why am I getting flak from this, as I am only saying that the tech should change to meet the changing needs of the site, and that the site should be re-written (backend) as it is obvious that it needs it.
It's NOT obvious it needs it. Some of the queries need rewriting or optimising. That's it.
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And it's obvious that the M$ tech has become insufficient given all the problems that we've seen as of late. This isn't even debatable.
It *IS* debatable. It's not the technology that is at fault - it's the SQL queries. You could port the site to MySQL and it'd fuck up just as much if the SQL didn't work optimally.
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B/c I don't think that you're a developer,
I own Viral Fan Limited, a fan forum marketing company. That worked on Serenity.
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I think that I have to point out, that no matter how well designed a site is (backend) once in a while, it has to re-written from scratch.
No, that's simply not true.
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The reasons are various but acouple are:
- bugs resulting from a flawed design
Do you rewrite a project from scratch because of bugs?
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So, apparently he is open to help. I'd help closed or open, but any improvements that I've requested or given, have not even gotten a comment. Thus there is a contradition to what he advertises and what he does.
Maybe he doesn't agree with you? Maybe he doesn't want your help? Maybe he's, you know, busy with real life?
End of the day, his ship, his rules. I know you're just offering suggestions, but it's being done in a topic where people are slagging off the site. I know a lot of people actually like this site.
It definitely needs some work, but Haken *does* do that work when it's required to keep it flying.
Firefly was a series about a shitty ship they could barely keep in the air, which people called home, and many on board loved. It's probably a tad appropriate that the biggest fan site is comparable. This site isn't a site with a huge budget and loads of people admining it. There's, like, no moderators here. Haken is captain.
There's also many other boats - including one of my own - people have started.
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Two cents anyone?
I am basically computer illiterate. Point and click and I'm happy, anything more complex and my lower lip begins to quiver.
I have dial up access, no high speed or broadband. I have no trouble navigating the site and the sidebars act as signposts for me.
I am married to someone who practically speaks Linux and several other programming languages. I've heard him cursing and seen how much time he puts in on just a wee bit of code.
A complete overhaul to take care of some (from what I have observed) minor glitches would be quite time consuming and probably bring down the whole site for days or weeks.
I think the animosity rearing its head here came from some less than optimally chosen wording and some others getting their hackles up without really considering the source.
The person suggesting an overhaul could have phrased things more delicately, but in my extensive experience with the typical nerd (myself included, believe me) choice of wording is often less than optimal and can lead to hurt feelings. Dealing with abstract concepts and hardware to the near exclusion of all else can hamper your social skills. Many of us never had much of those to start with, which is why we are percieved as "wierd" and part of what makes geeks the wacky wonderful people they usually are. Sometimes it just takes a gentle "I'm sorry, but I'm sure you didn't intend to insult this site. Could you try rephrasing your intended message?" Except you have to do it BEFORE the flame war breaks out.
I am new. My opinions are considered and nobody has called me a drooling idiot... yet.
It has been experiencing some technical difficulties lately. I happen to think it's pretty. Shiny even.
Everybody take a deep breath. Maybe if someone Haken is used to dealing with could float a PM and see if help is requested or required? Bull in a china shop's not likely to get help, old acquaintance looking for assistance friendly-like may. Has anybody tried asking Haken lately if business and/or OK-ness are occurring?
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