Theory that Book worked for Blue Sun and is Following River

POSTED BY: MsBigPileofDust
UPDATED: Thursday, February 12, 2004 22:54
VIEWED: 16644
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THEKINGOFCHAOS

Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:17 AM

just another point that no-one has brought up yet. In bushwacked Book does not use whatever is on his "card" to assist the crew in getting out of interrigations, assumeing that if he had been aware of the fact that Mal would have been charged with a crime. he may have interfered with whatever clout he had but we don't know this.

Yet he does use his card when his life is on the line. All I am saying that that whatever he is, he doesn't use it till all other possiblities have been exhausted.

I'm not sure that this helps in any way, but i do believe that its another piece of the puzzle.

BOURNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 5:56 AM

Maybe this is already a theory that's been advanced, or real close to one already out there, but here goes:

Book has clearly dealt with criminal activity, whichever side of the law he's on. And, as someone pointed out in an earlier post, his knowledge of criminal culture and technology seem fairly current.

He is most likely on the "right" side, since his ident card not only doesn't get him arrested, but does get him Alliance medical care (wonder if they've got good dental, too?).

He DOESN'T wear a cop uniform, and avoids direct association with the Law until at Death's Door.

To me, all of this screams "undercover agent."

I'm not altogether convinced River is his primary objective. She COULD be, though.

I'm also not sure that he's an ALLIANCE operative. He COULD be, though: undercover cop, IA, or the equivalent of CIA or NSA; all of these often perform covert ops, and assume aliases...like a priest, for example.

But what if he really IS a cleric? The present day (Roman)Catholic Church is, among other things, a sovereign state(Vatican) with dedicated police and intel agencies of its own. And while the thought makes many uncomfortable, they actually do use their world-wide network of priests, etc to help gather intel. In addition, as is typical with any other sovereign state, they cooperate with other agencies, like the CIA and MI-5(6?). Not unreasonable to speculate that 500 years from now, a similar cooperative structure might exist (perhaps one with a spin-off Protestant foundation of "Shepherds"? Or maybe Joss & Co were uncomfortable with using the actual Catholic Church?).

Anyway, just putting in my two-bits-worth...

LITWOLF689

Friday, February 6, 2004 1:34 PM

I have a point that could swing my Book agrument one of two ways:

In 'Bushwacked', with the crew was getting interrogated, what did the Alliance people say to Book? If they were asking him about Simon and River, that might prove that he is not working for the Alliance, unless they asked him right out, "Have you found the Tams yet?" So what do they ask him.

Also, everybody is saying that because Book reads the Bible in plain sight, that means that he is really religious and therefor not an Alliance agent. It could just be an act. Or he could really be really religious and that made the Alliance think he was a good man to play the part of a sheperd as an undercover agent.

These are just points I wanted to point out, but can somebody tell me what they say to Book in 'Bushwacked'?

Thanks!!!

^-^

ADEPTUS

Friday, February 6, 2004 2:59 PM

Here's my Book theory:

Quite frankly, I feel that Shepherd Book might have been some sort of law enforcement agent. Not a regular cop, or even a detective, maybe something more like a Federal Marshall, FBI agent or perhaps even a spy in the Alliance government.

He obviously has some clout with the Alliance (the Ident Card) and advanced combat training, not to mention an encyclopedic knowledge of police procedure and criminal activities.

Whatever ties Book may have to the Alliance (if indeed they exist) I believe are tenuous. I think that Book really did become a shepherd, maybe not out of a great desire to learn the Word, but perhaps to hide away from some trouble with the government.

I also don't believe he was specifically looking for Serenity when he first boarded her on Persephone. As far as we know, the crew hadn't done anything particularly noteworthy up until that point. I believe that Book is running from something. It puts the "I think I'm on the wrong ship" confession in a whole new light if you consider that Book, very desperately, wants to avoid Alliance attention.

Anyway, I was thinking that the River mind read moment belies a certain ruthlessness with which he performed whatever job he held for the Alliance. Perhaps, his "I don't give half a hump if your innocent" attitude changed at some point and he became disenchanted with his employer. Now he's running from, and perhaps trying to make amends for, his past.

No power in the 'verse can stop me.

GROOVEMONKEY

Friday, February 6, 2004 3:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AlferdPacker:
Book seems fairly familiar with both sides of the crime business. In "The Message" he seemed fairly knowledgable about where the had been commissioned and where his jurisdiction ended.

Maybe I was the only one who got that impression.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bourne:

I'm also not sure that he's an ALLIANCE operative. He COULD be, though: undercover cop, IA, or the equivalent of CIA or NSA; all of these often perform covert ops, and assume aliases...like a priest, for example.

When I saw this episode (The Message)i also got the impression that maybe Book was once a cop, maybe a detective or a “FBI" type agent at one point. That would explain his knowledge of fire arms (War Stories), police procedure and uniform standards (The Message), criminal tactics (OMR), and Early’s “that’s no preacher”.

The problem with him being a cop (even an agent) is that it does not explain why he breaks down at the end of “Serenity”, nor does it explain why the Alliance would jump at the sight of his Ident-O-Card.

Book being an ex-military man that fought for the Alliance and is repenting from his violent past seems to satisfy all the character clues that we have been given, and also sets him up for conflict with Mal. It would also explain why he seems to be quite confortable around Jayne, working out with him and showing him a measure of respect, something a man of God , I think, would not do.

When I saw my first ever episode of Firefly I thought that Book was probably my least favourite character. The more I re-watch the episodes on DVD, the more I realize that Book was going to bring a lot of interesting back story to the mix.

Why was this show cancelled again?

AYWYN

Friday, February 6, 2004 3:32 PM

Suppose...Book was an employee at "The Academy", maybe high ranking, and had supervised the Psi projects, taking special interest in River as one of the most promising subjects. After they couldn't do anything further at the academy, they arranged for Simon to "rescue" River from the facility and Book followed them to observe the experiment in the open world as oppose to the confinments (sp?) of the Academy. The whole religious thing he's got going on is just an act to inspire trust and confidence.

Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't coming back

ADEPTUS

Friday, February 6, 2004 4:55 PM

I have to really strongly disagree with the notion that Book followed Simon and River onto Serenity; there's just not one shred of evidence to support this assumption. In fact, I'll do my best to make the case that he couldn't have done so.

Let's examine timing as the first aspect.

When Serenity landed at the Eavesdown Docs, Mal told Kaylee to schedule their departure for three hours later. So, if everything went well, they would only be spending three hours on Persephone however, we all know that things didn't go well (Badger's refusal to accept the goods truncated their time.) The whole reason for them being there was to offload the goods for Badger, and Mal was itchin' to get that done, so he makes a bee-line for Badger's Den of Thieves. Now, as they were walking, we can figure it probably didn't take more than ten or twenty minutes (at the most) for them to get there. Also, immediately after they leave, we are introduced to Shepherd Book by his exchange with the captain of the Brutus. Then we go back to Mal and his conversation with Badger. Now this little chat only lasted a few minutes and ended with Mal and company on the way back to the ship. The very next scene is Book and Kaylee, and he finds Kaylee lounging in the chair in front of the cargo bay. So, Simon would have only had about 15 to 25 minutes to get to Serenity ahead of Book, which is definitely possible, but he'd pretty much have to be standing right next to where it landed or have made a bee-line for her from wherever he was. It's doubtful that this occurred, and my final point will help support this statement.

Now let's look at how Book chose a ship for passage.

Book wasn't looking at destinations, or passenger lists (and it's doubtful that Simon would have registered in a database anyway), he was looking at ships (as Kaylee pointed out.) Actually, it seems he was also evaluating the representatives of the ships. I personally think that if the captain of the Brutus had been more respectful he might have booked passage on it instead. When Book first approaches Serenity, he pauses to look for a second or two, then keeps on going. It was Kaylee's unique, tactful and insightful sales pitch that piqued Book's interest. During the exchange, Book engages Kaylee in conversation, and I got the impression that he was weighing her treatment of him more than he was weighing the space worthiness of her vessel. The people that Book was travelling with mattered the most to him.

Let's put timing and Simon's known tail together.

After this exchange we cut back to Mal, Zoe and Jayne in the last couple of minutes of their 10 - 20 min trek from Badger's, and as they approach the ship we see Wash driving up with Simon's Box and Kaylee saying:
"Welcome aboard, mister. . . ?"
She's speaking to someone she was just now meeting, Dobson, who we know was following Simon. In fact, it's reasonable to assume that Dobson was keeping a pretty close eye on Simon, and a shadow is never very far from the object that casts it. Therefore, if Dobson was just now showing up, you can bet that Simon had only just gotten there himself. So if we put all the timeline together, we have Shepherd Book's encounter with the Brutus' captain about five or ten minutes after Serenity's landing, then his encounter with Kaylee about twenty to twenty-five minutes after touchdown. Simon's encounter with Kaylee most likely occurred about thirty to forty minutes after touchdown and Dobson was just a few moments (or minutes) after Simon.

If anyone has some specific evidence to bring up that points to Book following Simon, I'd be very glad to read it.

No power in the 'verse can stop me.

SAINT JAYNE

Saturday, February 7, 2004 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Adeptus:
If anyone has some specific evidence to bring up that points to Book following Simon, I'd be very glad to read it.

Evidence? I wish I had a good logical debate to give you. Would you settle for a half-assed drunken slur?

I believe the odds of Book being just a regular preacher are about the same as River being just intuitive. Does everyone have a reason to be on Serenity except Book? I don't think he's just a floater.

Quote:
So, Simon would have only had about 15 to 25 minutes to get to Serenity ahead of Book...

It's a movie. Everything is possible. I think an equally valid argument is a writer thinking, "how do we get Book on board without giving away that he's an X-Alliance commando/ninja/Catholic who's tracking River?"

Quote:
Now let's look at how Book chose a ship for passage.

Kaylee might have been wrong when she said Book wasn't interested in destinations, just the ships. I don't think he was interested in either. He spends as much time looking out into the crowds as he does looking into the holds of ships. He's looking for Simon and River, I think. When we first see him, he's eyeing up a young man in a suit - looking to see if it's Simon, maybe.

Quote:
Actually, it seems he was also evaluating the representatives of the ships.

I think this as well. Who would not scare off Simon and his highly-illegal cargo? I admit, this isn't my strongest arguement, but I think Book new which ship Simon was taking before he did (since I agree with you that Book didn't follow Simon on board).

Whatever your thoughts, I think we all have to agree that there are important facts about Book being kept from us.

PALEHORSE

Saturday, February 7, 2004 7:38 PM

Hello to those of you who know of my pet theory.

Nice to meet the ones who don't.

The thread titled "Was Book at Serenity Valey?" pretty much sums up my case. and I invite anybody to read it if you wish.

I just think that the idea of following River would be a little too well worn.

"Serenity"- bounty hunter
"Ariel"- Jayne turns the Tams in
"Obj. in Space"- Jubal

ADEPTUS

Sunday, February 8, 2004 8:23 PM

Quote:
I believe the odds of Book being just a regular preacher are about the same as River being just intuitive.

Never said that Book was just a regular preacher. I just don't believe he was specifically following River and Simon when he boarded Serenity.

Quote:
It's a movie. Everything is possible. I think an equally valid argument is a writer thinking, "how do we get Book on board without giving away that he's an X-Alliance commando/ninja/Catholic who's tracking River?"

While you do have a point, you basically have to make unsupported assumptions to fit your presuppositions in order to arrive at this conclusion. Wouldn't exactly hold up in a court of law, a philosophical debate, or a logical argument.

Quote:
He spends as much time looking out into the crowds as he does looking into the holds of ships.

Well he's been shut up in an abbey for six or so years. Don't you think you'd be a little bit oggle-prone your first day out?

Quote:
He's looking for Simon and River, I think. When we first see him, he's eyeing up a young man in a suit - looking to see if it's Simon, maybe.

You mean the man in the suit who's talking to two prostitutes? Just because he looks at someone or something doesn't mean he's "eyeing them up." You just pointed out that he spent lots of time looking into crowds, was he eyeing up all the people in them? I don't think so. And I do agree, to some extent, that Book was looking for the right kind of people; as I stated in my previous post.

Also, if Book were following Simon and River he's never taken any action concerning them. We know from "Trash" that he's been travelling on Serenity for almost a year. You'd think that in that span of time, he'd have acted in some way or another if he were indeed following River.

I think that dwelling on the theory that Book may have been following Simon and River is an unworthy distraction in trying to figure out what his hidden past is. I leave it to Whedon and his team of writers to prove me wrong.

No power in the 'verse can stop me.

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