Japanese in Serenity movie?

POSTED BY: JuniperJayne
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 2, 2007 13:39
VIEWED: 11044
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DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, September 11, 2006 11:07 AM

Briefly hijacking the thread to say that Joss has hinted at a connection between Japanese Kanji and Goners.

Back on topic, I always thought those four guys dressed in black with the red belts we saw briefly on Persephone during the pilot were meant to be Yakuza. But I may be showing my ignorance of all things Eastern.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

DAVESHAYNE

Monday, September 11, 2006 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
The sword the Operative carries owes more to the katana than to the West.

Physically it's not particularly reminiscent of the katana at all. No curve to speak of and esthetically it's more utilitarian than ornate. The operative's attitude to the sword is perhaps a bit more Japanese, "In certain older civilized cultures...." But it's hard to say how much of his demeanor is a reflection of society as a whole as opposed to a partial adaptation of the samurai honorable warior template as a way to shield his moral self from having to reflect upom the immoral acts he performs as an assassin for the Alliance.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:43 AM

@DaveShayne:

Though there are few things that can be pointed at with a "See? Right there?" type things that point to a significant Japanese culture, there is the feel of things, how people talk about things (the Operative example is excellent), the city/world where they land to drop Simon and River off (forget the name), etc...

Perhaps I've watched too much Japanese and Chinese stuff, but there is a significant, if not subtle, difference between the two. And the movie gives me a Japanese feel, and certainly NOT a Chinese one.

@all:

There are those in this thread (and I imagine others) that miss the point. Namely, I'm NOT saying that there are "no other cultures in the 'verse". What I AM saying is that in the BDS there was heavy Chinese culture with little to no Japanese influence (at least I didn't notice any). This is in stark contrast to how things work in the BDM where it's pretty much flipped.

Sure there will always be "hot spots" for other cultures in any multi-cultural 'verse. But, nothing in the BDS gave any indication that this would be so on the scale that is in the BDM.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@DaveShayne:

Though there are few things that can be pointed at with a "See? Right there?" type things that point to a significant Japanese culture, there is the feel of things, how people talk about things (the Operative example is excellent), the city/world where they land to drop Simon and River off (forget the name), etc...

Beaumonde

Quote:
Perhaps I've watched too much Japanese and Chinese stuff, but there is a significant, if not subtle, difference between the two. And the movie gives me a Japanese feel, and certainly NOT a Chinese one.

I'm certainly not the world's greatest expert on either Chinese or Japanese culture so perhaps there are some things I'm not picking up on. Something to look for the next time I screen the movie.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

TRAVELER

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:07 AM

There would be communities where cultures migrate to. Badger has a strong accent. This would not have survived if there was not a fairly large population from the United Kingdom gathered together.

I'm sure other nationalities have done the same.

In my city we neighborhoods that are Polish, German, Italian, Hispanic, etc. You know your in a real Mexican restaurant when you have to point at the menu to let the waitress know what you want because she does not speak English. Had to bring that up because I love Mexican food.

People gather where they find familiar language and culture.

Traveler

GOAT

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
The operative's attitude to the sword is perhaps a bit more Japanese, "In certain older civilized cultures...."

Just to elaborate a little more on that (don't know how much of this is common knowlege)

Quote:
From Wikipedia( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido#Bushido_ethics):
In the world of the warrior, seppuku was a deed of bravery that was admirable in a samurai who knew he was defeated, disgraced, or mortally wounded. It meant that he could end his days with his transgressions wiped away and with his reputation not merely intact but actually enhanced. The cutting of the abdomen released the samurai’s spirit in the most dramatic fashion, but it was an extremely painful and unpleasant way to die, and sometimes the samurai who was performing the act asked a loyal comrade to cut off his head at the moment of agony

Quote:
Originally posted by desktophippie:
I always thought those four guys dressed in black with the red belts we saw briefly on Persephone during the pilot were meant to be Yakuza.

I always thought of them as looking like a street gang than mobsters, but thats just my opinion.

Another thing that reminds me of older Japanese culture is Inara's character. Contrary to what seems to be popular (western) belief, geishas were not simple prostitutes but entertainers (geisha roughly translates to artist or person of the arts) and could sing, dance and usually play an instrument. The best of the geishas were trained from a very young age (see the deleted scenes from TBDM) to become graceful, "proper" entertainers. Sometimes a geisha would have sexual relations with a client but it would be her choice, not her obligation.
(more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha)

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by goat:
Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
The operative's attitude to the sword is perhaps a bit more Japanese, "In certain older civilized cultures...."

Just to elaborate a little more on that (don't know how much of this is common knowlege)
Quote:
From Wikipedia( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido#Bushido_ethics):
In the world of the warrior, seppuku was a deed of bravery that was admirable in a samurai who knew he was defeated, disgraced, or mortally wounded. It meant that he could end his days with his transgressions wiped away and with his reputation not merely intact but actually enhanced. The cutting of the abdomen released the samurai’s spirit in the most dramatic fashion, but it was an extremely painful and unpleasant way to die, and sometimes the samurai who was performing the act asked a loyal comrade to cut off his head at the moment of agony

Of course when it came down to it while the Operative was quite happy suggesting honorable death to his foes he didn't take that option for himself.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

I'm certainly not the world's greatest expert on either Chinese or Japanese culture so perhaps there are some things I'm not picking up on. Something to look for the next time I screen the movie.

I've been thinking about this a bit more and I think I may have an explination to how it more of a Japanese feel than a Japanese one.

Joss wrote the comics before the movie. We also know that Joss is a fairly big comic book fan (right? It's what I've heard).

So, then with writing the movie right after the comics (amoung other comic ventures) the way he wrote Serenity was more in the style of a comic book rather than a movie (another example of this type of movie would be The 5th Element).

It does account for the change in world, River, characters in general, etc.

What'd ya think? Yes/No/Maybe?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:

There would be communities where cultures migrate to. Badger has a strong accent. This would not have survived if there was not a fairly large population from the United Kingdom gathered together.

I'd be willing to bet that this has more to do with the actor being born in the UK than it does an intentional comment on the culture of the times. More likely Joss wanted (or liked the idea at audition time) to have someone with a "civilized accent" in a "somewhat lowly" role. Or any number of more plausible explinations that have to do with "real life" than the mentioned intentional comment.

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:

In my city we neighborhoods that are Polish, German, Italian, Hispanic, etc.

...snip...

People gather where they find familiar language and culture.

Although this is true, you must have a constant influx of a nationality (or seggragation) for the people to keep there accent over the generations. If Firefly has stated anything else, its that this is not so. In every scene there are people from all walks of life.

To use your neighbourhood example, only the ones that imigrated at a "old enough age" to keep there accents actually keep there accents. And even then, over the course of several years, the older folks may "lose" there accent as well.

When it comes to accents, if this were real, what would most likely happen is that people would develope a new accent and all have the same one. Over time (perhaps generations) of course.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

DAVESHAYNE

Thursday, September 14, 2006 2:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
What'd ya think? Yes/No/Maybe?

Joss is certainly a fan of the comic book medium especially the classic X-Men stuff but I don't see that as being an explanation for any particular Japaneseness in the movie. Just because the Japanese culture has more greatly embraced the comic book as an art form doesn't mean that all practitioners of the art have been influenced by the Japanese comics. I think it more likely Joss picked up some Kurosawa inflence at second hand through the classic westerns A Fist Full of Dollars (based on the Kurosowa film Yojimbo) and The Magnificent Seven (based on The Seven Samurai also directed by Kurosawa.) A fistfull of Dollors is probably a very good example of the kind of cultural melange that Joss was atempting to evoke in Serenifly - An Italian film about gang warfare in a small village in Mexico staring an American actor with a script that's an almost word for word translation of a Japanese samurai film.

Actually I will hazard a guess that anybody with Joss' known interests would have experienced Kurosawa at first hand. He is one of the greatest film makers of the 20th century with a keen eye not only for the visual aspect but also for the tiny details of life. He has a knack for bringing the true humanity of his characters to the screen even in the midst of his epic story lines. I can highly recomend seeing just about any movie of his.

Also I think it was the other way around with the comic. He wrote that after he wote the script for the movie to bridge the gap from the end of the series to the begining of the movie and to explain what happened to Book and Inara and a few other minor characters. Without the movie the comic doesn't really serve much of a purpose. Or rather if the movie hadn't been made the comic would probably have developed in a different way.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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