LIVE From Dragon*Con
POSTED BY: bad2verse
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 05:39
VIEWED: 52766
PAGE 11 of 20
Pluto/Heather
I had to find the tape, but yes, I have you giving them the shirts. Because of my location, you can only see the side of your face for a split second, but I figure everyone knows it was you.
If you want to wait till this weekend, I should have most of the Firefly-related DragonCon stuff transferred and transcoded. I'd be happy to mail you a DVD, send you a file via GMail or AIM, or set up a torrent for you, your call.
DarkJester/John
p.s. Seeing as I'm in South Carolina, maybe I should join the Seebkuh ranks?
MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."
http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast
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Cozen, I wish you had come up to me...I wanted to meet as many of you as possible! I am still making the coats, but my FFF.net notification is not working, so please use tristan71@cableone.net to contact me.
As for the family emergency, read my blog if you have a chance.
Fireflygal, thank you for that update...I hope someone got pictures of the contest to share!
Hell's Kitten...arrgghh! Someone else I missed!
EngineAngel, again, it was great to get to meet you! And yes, I want to see a picture of you and the strawberry!
______________________________________
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Quote:
Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
uh, no, not at all a jump between the two, because I'm pretty sure Alan was saying this exact same thing as soon as the movie came out - that Joss promised him that if there was another movie, Wash and Book would be in it some how.
***********************
Hey, here's hoping. I'm just trying to help you refine your arguments, because going from 'I haven't heard anything' to 'I've been told that if there is a movie, Book and Wash will be in it' is not an advancement in their position. It's merely a different way of stating already known information. It's no different than if _I_ said both that we don't know anything yet, and then later said that Tudyk has said that if there was a next movie, he would be in it. It doesn't mean I've come into more information, or that I'm slipping up and releasing information that I'd previously been tight-lipped about, it's merely me saying things that have already been said.
So if you use _that_ to advance your argument that there's something brewing, you're doing yourself a disservice, because it means nothing, and so convinces others you're talking to that you're making a lot out of nothing. The NDA argument is much stronger, so you should stick with that.
Star Pilot Grainger
You're "Pretty Sure"? We need to know "FOR SURE", because if that's the case, it has meaning.
OK, You want the long version.. Fine.. Grab your favorite caffinated beverage...
At the start of Dragon*Con, Alan was SAYING he knew NOTHING about further books/novelizations/movies continuing the 'verse", even going so far as saying "Am I in them?" about the books/continuation-of-the-'verse. Anyone here that was at the first Q&A session at Dragon*con disagree with that summary?
Why this sudden denial of knowing anything about ANY of this, or knowing anything about future movies at The start of Dragon*Con, if he already said he and Book would be in any future movies? Does that make ANY kind of sense to you? And IF you are correct, it only further proves that there is PURPOSEFUL disinformation being put out. Why?
AND notice Summer has said NOTHING on the topic.. Did anyone that was actually at Dragon*Con hear Summer say ANYTHING AT ALL about Future movies? One way or the Other?
As *I* remember it, ANY time someone asked about future movies, Alan IMMEDIATELY took over (Which is believable because Summer is Shy) and Summer backed away from the Mic.. she only talked again AFTER Alan had got the Subject Away from the "Grey areas" (Covered in NDAs), and then discussed her Role in Wash's "Planet where I'm a hero", etc etc (Depending on the panel that day).
Same again when we asked the question privately.. "Alan said" "NDAs", Summer didn't say a WORD on the subject, but talked for quite a while on other topics.
In Hollywood, when something is dead, they SAY "It's dead".. it rallies the "Fan Base", and the last sales of the merchandising, Video sales, etc, spike for a while (To squeeze every last drop of money out of it), and then that drops off as interest wanes because there is NO more news "being leaked out" AT ALL... and then it's over except for small market spikes as something brings the Movie up again for a SHORT time. Hollywood rule of thumb, "don't string the fan base along if there is no hope of further movies/series"... an Angry Fan base is not a good thing.
FireFly/Serenity fans aren't the first Fan base to do "Guerilla Marketing" and won't be the last... But in EVERY documented case we've found, the shows that they said were "Definitely dead", Died.
MANY of the Shows that they pulled this EXACT same stunt of "Dribbles of information" came out again in some form or another.
These "Games" are one of the reasons George Lucas HATED production companies... But BELIEVE they DO play these games, they DO "leak" information, and they DO create dis-information to keep people talking/discussing, etc (Sound familiar?)
Tremors started going "Direct to DVD" after YEARS of rumors, hints, dribbles o
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Hi, I spent 3 days at Dragon Con, saw all 3 panels (will link to photos soon after sorting them and uploading them). I also uploaded photos of the Shindig (albeit around midnight since it was really tough to get into at the start of it around 10 p.m. on Saturday night), and here is the link to the Shindig photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/sets/72157594266176644/
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Bad2Verse,
First, I want to say thank you for sharing your d*con experiences. And thank you even more for sharing your insights and experiences with the business end of things re: work we can do to get more of this 'Verse. In the short time you've been here, you've made tremendous contributions to the community, and I hope you stick around.
I do want to clarify, as StarPilotGrainger has, that it is old news that Alan and Ron would be included in whatever future Serenity project comes. Joss declared this very, very early on, as there was quite a bit of unrest in the community in the wake of their characters sudden, unexpected deaths. The details of what Alan said - that he wasn't sure how, exactly, they would come back, but that they would - are exactly in line with Joss's earlier comments. (And when I say 'early' I mean prior to Serenity's Box Office being totaled.)
The point being, much of what you're presenting seems reasonable and valid, but not that point. Alan's early 'no news' comments were likely in the specific context (at least in his mind) of the business end of it, while the later 'if there's a movie we'll be in it' comments were more of a creative, story-line pondering. As fans we've heard and seen so much of how well the cast get on together, that Alan and Ron's possible exclusion from any future films left many people distraught. That is what those comments are really addressing. These same types of responses to questions about the future of the franchise have been pretty consistent over the last year, or so.
At these cons, the actors are often put in a position where they don't want to say anything too disappointing, but they don't want to say anything too promising, either - NDAs or not. So there has always been a whole lot of studdering. The actors are not given lines, and are not lawyers or execs, and hard-to-kill rumors have been started from innocent remarks at cons in the past.
I agree with your overall optimism about the future for FF/S, but only based on some of your arguments for it. I agree that it is important to refine your arguments to the indisputable truth (if there is such a thing), because those who can discount part of your reasoning with their own personal knowledge and experience of the saga of this franchise, will simply discount the rest of your arguments as similarly misguided. I encourage you to tap the resource of your fellow Browncoats to help distill those truths.
Again, your argument is not wrong, but it is based on a limited context at the con, and lacking the broader backround of the ups and downs and cryptic answers to the same questions since before Serenity's release.
Thank you for your efforts, and please do keep up the enthusiasm and the fight!
Quote:
Originally posted by bad2verse:
Production companies ROUTINELY seed Fan Sites with the "Dribbles of information" we CONSTANTLY see. And the UP side of that for a production company is that it saves them Money because the FANS do the Job of Getting other Fans interested, something a HUGE advertising budget wouldn't pull off as well.. in ANY business another rule of thumb, "Your best advertisers are your customers".
Universal put too much faith in this approach with the marketing for Serenity, with less than stellar results. While I am sure that the fanbase is larger now, we still suffer from the fact that fanbase runs deep, not wide. Universal misinterpreted our intensity as breadth, and basing an assertion about our numbers on the size of Browncoat turnout at Dragon*Con is making the same error.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.
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Quote:
Originally posted by bad2verse:
At the start of Dragon*Con, Alan was SAYING he knew NOTHING about further books/novelizations/movies continuing the 'verse", even going so far as saying "Am I in them?" about the books/continuation-of-the-'verse. Anyone here that was at the first Q&A session at Dragon*con disagree with that summary?
Why this sudden denial of knowing anything about ANY of this, or knowing anything about future movies at The start of Dragon*Con, if he already said he and Book would be in any future movies? Does that make ANY kind of sense to you?
Absolutely. It makes perfect sense to me. People aren't robots. People forget pertinent information for a while while they're talking. People interpret questions in ways that might lead to giving two different answers to very similar questions. People make jokes that don't hold up to avanced scrutiny, to get a quick laugh. All of these can lead to two different answers to the same general question, especially when both answers are things they've already said long ago.
You use the knowledge that humans aren't robots when you discuss stuttering and such, why not take it to the rational outcome instead of dismissing it and assuming people do behave like robots when it serves your argument?
If someone says they haven't heard anything about future movies, it doesn't mean that they're lying, if it's actually the case (and they reveal it later) that they've heard from Joss that if there was another movie, he'd be in it. It could mean he don't consider what he heard from Joss 'hearing anything about future movies'. Maybe he felt it was important not to (from his perspective) lie to people and he wanted to set them straight that he hasn't heard anything about a movie. Then, later, once his conscience was clear from that, he felt more free to answer hypotheticals and say again about how Joss told him that IF there another movie, he'd be in it.
Again, I'm not discussing the argument as a whole, and indeed some of the rest of it sounds like it could be plausible (I still refuse to get my hopes up, just on general principle- that way I can only be pleasantly surprised, not disappointed). I'm saying this particular point of it is nonsense. And, people being as they are (not robot-like), a nonsense point is liable to make them dismiss your WHOLE analysis, because they figure, if you make one nonsense point, or making connections that clearly aren't there, or making too much of information that was already known before Serenity's box office was known, perhaps you're making other ones that they just didn't spot. So I'm suggesting, if you want people to believe your speculations, you don't include that particular point in your argument, as it's a nonsense point. IMHO.
Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://newnumber6.livejournal.com/ (real)
http://alternaljournal.livejournal.com/ (fictional, travelling through other worlds)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions
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Man does this thread bring the emotions up and down. I hear what everyone is saying and being more optimistic I want to believe Bad2 more.
I will agree with a lot of what has been posted about the feelings some ppl are left with from the D*C is the same "song and dance". Why would an actor with any heart at all want to be the one to get up in front of thousands of fans and say "That's it! There ain't no more!" Don't think that statement would make them very popular.
Bad2Verse, I like that you are quite an informed browncoat. If there is a line drawn in the sand about the info coming out of D*C I will gladly stand on your side.
Seems it's coming into a numbers game.Well it has been all along.IMO the numbers are there. If not a movie then why not a mini-series. That would show how much generated interest there is in a new FF/Serenity re-awakening.If a new movie were made I would be sure to go see it(I didn't last time. I didn't even know of Firefly then). Not one time but several and the family would go too. I'm talking extended family here.Brothers, sisters, cousins. I'll even take my dog spike and pay for him a seat. Browncoats do know that any sequel would have to do very well. Therefore this time around we will come out in force. Hell I'll even pay for friends of mine to go see Serenity2 for free. Now that's a deal. What I do believe is somebody somewhere is watching. The browncoats at D*C were many and I am proud of each one of them. But for every browncoat on a web fansite there are 30,40 or more that just won't join a fansite of any kind. They love FF/Serenity and they'd go to see a new movie but their coat is a little dusty and they sit back a little. I know I'm married to one.
I'm with you Bad2. If you feel the info coming out of D*C is a positive sign I am hopeful. I know sequels to other movies have been made that have a lot less going for them that this one.
I've gotten a little long so I'll end now. But just as I've said before, there's money to be made.And lots of it for smart ppl.
Z
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I am agreeing with BAD here.
There are indeed signs as to a possibility of another movie made. And the signs are indeed there and cryptic as to "other irons in the fire" message by Joss.
Universal is still making money on the DVDs. As to SEEDING the fanbase, YES, I recognize the strategy. Maybe the execs are fishing.
I also have to agree on the possiblity that: I don't want to be the actor to tell the fanbase (my fanbase) that what they are fighting for to keep alive is already dead. That there is nothing more.
But I believe there will be more movies. I'm thinking dominoes (not the pizza).
Another thing:
Alan and Summer maybe reading this, I hope they don't think that these little arguments means that we are losing faith. Coz' we aint and we'll keep shinin'.
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Alan pics from the Wash Wake - http://www.animateanimal.com/dragoncon/2006/saturday/index.html
Plenty more pics coming from Friday and Sunday. Jayne hats galore, browncoats, and the other crazy costumes we've come to expect from Dragon*Con.
I just had a blast seeing how many browncoats there were. The ranks have grown so much since last year. And the Jayne hats were multiplying like so many rabbits! Firefly was easily the biggest draw at the con.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xanderesque:
Alan pics from the Wash Wake - http://www.animateanimal.com/dragoncon/2006/saturday/index.html
Plenty more pics coming from Friday and Sunday. Jayne hats galore, browncoats, and the other crazy costumes we've come to expect from Dragon*Con.
I just had a blast seeing how many browncoats there were. The ranks have grown so much since last year. And the Jayne hats were multiplying like so many rabbits! Firefly was easily the biggest draw at the con.
Hey! You took a picture of us...neat!
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