Position reversal
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:16
VIEWED: 2267
PAGE 2 of 3
Mrs. Mal,
I think that the only *democrat* in the vicinity may have been setting him up.
Kane,
You're making it look bad for Allen. If people in Tunisia do use this term, then it's inappropriate. Allen's only viable name was that he thought it was his name. He starts out with "this guy, macaca, i think his name is macaca." If he didn't think the guys name was macaca, then it was allen's bad.
But I don't buy most of this. We all saw the video. I feel like the PC nazi brigade here. I saw it and the after flutter is stinking of hoax. endless reference pages defining the term and detailing its meaning which appeared the next day, and nothing before that, it looks bad.
I guess I'm still undecided. I don't think Allen is dumb enough to think that an indian is black. I'm not sure, it's too weird on both sides.
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Dreamtrove
Did the only "Democrat in the vicinity" put the word into Allen's mouth?
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
You're making it look bad for Allen. If people in Tunisia do use this term, then it's inappropriate. Allen's only viable name was that he thought it was his name. He starts out with "this guy, macaca, i think his name is macaca." If he didn't think the guys name was macaca, then it was allen's bad.
What Allen actually said was, "This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt - Macaca, or whatever his name is - he's with my opponent." [my transcription so the punctuation and grammar are slightly different from published transcripts]
There's a difference between what you wrote, "i think his name is macaca" and what Allen said, "or whatever his name is."
More on the rest of the thread later, but I just wanted to correct an inaccuracy.
* edited to change translation to transcription
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HHOOO KAY!
Didn't we already have this discussion about a watermelon hat?
But I agree with FMF.
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I'm still trying to decide.
I'm no fan of George Allen by any stretch.
If this is a PC police set up then it's despicable, and it would be set up by allen's opponent and allen should win. If it's not a set up than allen is a pig and should lose.
FMF is actually losing her own argument with a vengeances, and she is only helped by Kane losing his just as fast.
Allen's worst enemy here is Hannity, who in making excuses for Allen makes him look incredibly guilty. His greatest ally is the internet, on which I can find hundred of references to this as a tunisian slur, all conveniently posted after the incident.
The marching PC police really are up there with Allen on the offensive scale.
There are two things here which have not been proven wrong:
1. Someone may have pranked Allen, who is none too swift.
2. I can not a reference to Macaca as a tunisian slur in print with a definate date prior to the incident.
But my assumption is that it's Allen's own foot in mouth, whether he intended it or not, because I beasically don't think much of him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
FMF is actually losing her own argument with a vengeances, and she is only helped by Kane losing his just as fast.
How am I doing that? The man made the statement. No one forced him to say it. No one stood over him and whispered in his ear - hey call the only ethnic man in the room a Macaca and then welcome him to America.
Kind of hard to "lose" this argument. He said it. It is inherenyly racist. He is a big boy and a politician and should know better.
edited to put in a quotation mark
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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The question was, I suppose, was he punked. We all saw the video clip. When the PC police come in, it's like 'one wrong word, no matter what the reason, and you're career is over' who would want to play by those rules?
Certainly not me. I don't think anyone on this forum would pass by those rules, I don't think anyone on the crew of firefly would. Either he's a racist or he isn't, but the people who already had the noose strung up before the incident started are somewhat suspect.
The whole manner of the later responses really pissed me off. Not the early ones, I just wanted to admit to being wrong, and hopefully find out if there was proof that the wikipedia entries were true, on which I still have nothing.
I certainly don't want to waste any time defending George Allen who I truly can't stand. I just didn't think the PC police should be allowed to win an election by smear tactics.
I do think that the left should self-examine on the whole PC thing, which kind of brings up a sort of viceral reaction.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The question was, I suppose, was he punked. We all saw the video clip. When the PC police come in, it's like 'one wrong word, no matter what the reason, and you're career is over' who would want to play by those rules?
Certainly not me. I don't think anyone on this forum would pass by those rules, I don't think anyone on the crew of firefly would. Either he's a racist or he isn't, but the people who already had the noose strung up before the incident started are somewhat suspect.
The whole manner of the later responses really pissed me off. Not the early ones, I just wanted to admit to being wrong, and hopefully find out if there was proof that the wikipedia entries were true, on which I still have nothing.
I certainly don't want to waste any time defending George Allen who I truly can't stand. I just didn't think the PC police should be allowed to win an election by smear tactics.
I do think that the left should self-examine on the whole PC thing, which kind of brings up a sort of viceral reaction.
Welcome to the YouTube generation.
I'm going off on a tangent to illustrate a point. Senator Boxer, from my state, went to Connecticut to campaign for Senator Lieberman before the Connecticut primary. A Connecticut citizen videotaped her answering questions as she was walking with Lieberman. Within less than an hour, the video was posted on YouTube. Her answers were dissected on-line (at firedoglake and other places) and California residents started calling her various offices to complain about her statements. All of this happened the SAME day. Probably before she even got back to DC.
The message for politicians is clear. If you see a video camera, be careful what you say. And don't be surprised if you get asked questions about what you said. And don't be surprised if that video is posted to the web.
We're tired of waiting for reporters to synthesize and spin what politicians tell them. We want to cut out the middle-man. Put up the raw footage. Let us make up our own minds.
Now to bring it back to Senator Allen. Nobody put words in his mouth. He saw the video camera. He himself has people following around Webb with video cameras.
When this clip got posted to the web there was a collective, "WTF?" that went around liberal blogs. What the hell was macaca? You look in the dictionary and it says, "monkey." That can't be good.
And when the Allen campaign said that it was a variant of "mohawk" and that it referred to the videographer's haircut that was like throwing chum in the water. A picture of the videographer was posted and it was clear that his hair wasn't in a mohawk.
In other words, the lame ass excuses that the Allen campaign came up with sent a message that there might be some there there.
Does that mean he was punked? No. It means that Senator Allen gave a healthy chunk of ammunition to people who don't think he should be re-elected and they happened to have a platform to spread that gaffe.
As I posted in the other thread, I don't see this as affecting Senator Allen in his Presidential campaign. What it does is reinforce some things in the minds of people who already don't support him. It's consistent with past behavior.
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Sorry, I got ticked off at all the Salem Witchhunt, and I was a little peaved at the Alliance-hugging in another thread. I just let 'em have it, and now I'm ready to give up.
YouTube scares me, it's like television re-invented as a beeniebaby fad. It's addictive, and send people to watch more video than they're ever watch normally. Also, I see the glorious text revolution being eaten by the mind boob tube again.
But I get your point. I disagree that it means he wasn't punked, someone might have told him that was the guy's name. I really think Allen is immensely stupid, which should be reason enough to not vote for him.
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Hey DT,
I gave just a very short response earlier b/c that's what I had time for (my typing is laborious).
But I thought about the specifics and came up with this:
Was it said?
Yes, it was said twice, in fact. This isn't a case of something being manufactured or transformed with video magic (like Howard Dean's yell was).
Was it racist?
I'd say probably. The various and contradictory explanations given are not credible. But even if it was not specifically racist, in this context it was demeaning to the only dark face in the crowd. Plus, see (significance) below.
Was he set-up?
I'm not sure how that could have happened. Sidarth was assigned to follow Allen around and videograph his speeches. (Allen's own campaign does the same thing to Webb.) Sidarth was a familiar if not necessarily welcome face. Allen said it wasn't that he thought it was Sidarth's name.
What is the significance?
Allen has a long-standing and none too private history of racism. In this case, it would be an exposure of something meaningful.
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