Serenity is 'fascist'?
POSTED BY: goat
UPDATED: Friday, September 1, 2006 07:13
VIEWED: 16002
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by YLess:
If only people did that, it would stop so many soccer mums who haven't the 'balls' to stop their kids doing something going and trying to get the government to stop it (Snip).
Edit: this was supposed to quote BAD2VERSE :/
Edit 2: sorry if I seem a bit off-topic, I'm just trying to avoid political debates.
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While it can be viewed as a political debate, it's EXACTLY the point Firefly/Serenity was trying to make....
Again, as River said, "We meddle. People don’t like to be meddled with.
We tell them what to do, what to think. Don’t run, don’t walk. We’re in their homes and in their heads and we haven’t the right.
We’re meddlesome".
Seems on-topic to me, but then again, who am I?
________________________
..but eatin people alive, where does THAT get fun?
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I'm a little puzzled my ownself. He mentions Serenity. But I'm begining to think he is not refering to the ship and it's crew, but the movie title. In other words it sounds to me like he is saying the Alliance is fascist. It is his poor choice of words that make it appear that Mal and his crew are fascist.
What makes fascism so frightening is that people like Hitler and Himmler actually believed their own words. As mentioned above they came at a time when the world was in serious shape and people were hungry for anything to improve their lives.
It is true the Nazi party was elected to govern the people of Germany. Only after getting dominant in the government did they start taking dictatoral powers. If you put bread in a humgry mans hands he will seldom ask where it came from. And people did not complain as Hitler took full control because he brought bread. Stained with blood, but no one asked why.
So I can't imagine this comment was aimed at Mal and his crew. I think the term Serenity implies the movie, thus implying the Alliance.
So unless this guy is an idiot, and that could be a possibility, it is his last words that pissed me off. Can I say pissed? Saying that Mal only cared if someone got in his way. In the series, I sure this guy never watched it, Mal stood up for others a couple of times. "Our Mrs Reynolds" and "Heart of Gold".
Mal looks beyond himself and his crew. He helps others in need. So I think this guy should see the entire series before he makes broad statements like that. He fought in the war for the freedom of all, not just himself.
I aim to be pissed
Traveler
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Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
What makes fascism so frightening is that people like Hitler and Himmler actually believed their own words. As mentioned above they came at a time when the world was in serious shape and people were hungry for anything to improve their lives.
It is true the Nazi party was elected to govern the people of Germany. Only after getting dominant in the government did they start taking dictatoral powers. If you put bread in a humgry mans hands he will seldom ask where it came from. And people did not complain as Hitler took full control because he brought bread. Stained with blood, but no one asked why.
Actually, in the strictest definition, Germany was a totalitarian dictatorship practicing "Nazism" (Even though Hitler was "Elected"), and was later called a fascist State as the meaning of the word mutated a bit...
Italy was a fascist state under Benito Mussolini.. The difference was that "Nazism" said that the state existed to support and nurture a superior race, whereas fascism control thought that the cultural race differences existed to serve the state in different roles (More of a cast system).
Hitler tried exterminating the "underclass" only leaving the "Superior race", and Mussolini simply set the "Underclass" to work in menial roles in a cast system they couldn't break out of.
The two concepts are FREQUENTLY (and wrongly) blended and no distinction is made now most of the time, which is incorrect.... but history will have it's way, so I guess it's a moot point (Or as Joey on Friends said, "A Moo Point".. A cow's opinion, who cares?;)...
The two ideologies wouldn't be connected had Hitler and Mussolini not been such close "friends".. actually the two concepts had always been distinctly different up until right after WW2 when they became blended...
I only know this because it used to drive my College Western Civ. Proff. crazy if we incorrectly called Nazi Germany "fascist"... He'd go off on a 30 minute rant about the differences and then accuse the transgresor of not paying attention ;)
None of this would matter if it wasn't in the article incorrectly.. we "Assume" that authors in national media outlets know their history, but the more YOU learn about History, the more you wonder where these so-called "Experts" got their educations, because they frequently butcher history unknowingly and a whole generation ends up with incorrect information... Glenn Beck on CNN the other night told a PHD "I only have one semester of college, I'm a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, but ANYONE can see ____"... and I thought "THIS guy is qualified to report national news... how????"
________________________
..but eatin people alive, where does THAT get fun?
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Quote:
Originally posted by micjwelch:
Like I said, I don't want this to be a debate. But any government should put SOME limits on people. The reason we can vote is so that WE can decide what those limits are. I'm all for putting all those things you mentioned to a vote.
Dude, people like you are scaaaaaaary.
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You do that, and you'd best make peace with your dear and fluffy lord.
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It is true, some would label us 'facist's', but they would be wrong. Serenity was never about resisting the idea of a free Government and setting up a dictator and all that rot. It's about resisting conformity, a concept with which I heartily agree!
If we will not resist what the Government does, and simply roll over and go with everything they say, then that is more Facist than anything else. A DEMOCRACY (which is the U.S.A.) means that the people have an option to resist what the Government does. To that effect, Mal is a democratic if anything, although you stretch the term a bit. The Alliance controls everything about the folk in Firefly, even though they think they don't. In truth, Serenity is about Resisting such things as Fascism and Communism and conformity in general.
-Danny
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I for one would have to say that most goverments are corupt but I have no quams with them rulling because in the end people make their own desitions. So even though I dont agree with the magority of govermental sistems I wouldnt say that were anti goverment we all just really love this tv searies.
the only reall antisocialist
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gotta agree with most of what Bad2Verse has to say about Heinlein-- I've read just about every word RAH wrote myself. I see Mal as pretty close to a Heinlein hero, individualistic, libertarian, and pretty close to anarchist.
I see a lot more in common with The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress than with Starship Troopers, but nobody's ever made a film out of TMIAHM. Maybe somebody should?
Wonder if we should start a Heinlein Thread here, or if there's been one? But it would prob'ly degenerate into what most Heinlein threads do , most places-- a lot of pointless argument and name calling.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
If we will not resist what the Government does, and simply roll over and go with everything they say, then that is more Facist than anything else. A DEMOCRACY (which is the U.S.A.) means that the people have an option to resist what the Government does.(Snip)
-Danny
Actually we're a "Republic" with a Democratic form of government ("And to the Republic, for which it stands...").
There's a BIG difference.. WE elect our representitives to make decisions for us, hopefully based on the will of the people.. but we expect those leaders to be more informed about issues than "The People", and to make good decisions for us (Even if the decisions aren't popular). If we "Voted" on EVERYTHING (As true a Democracy would), we wouldn't ever get anything done, and since many people DON'T keep up with issues at all, it would quickly degenerate into a brawling mob... No Democracy has ever made it past the 75 year mark as a country that I know of.
________________________
..but eatin people alive, where does THAT get fun?
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Quote:
Originally posted by antisocialist1:
I for one would have to say that most goverments are corupt but I have no quams with them rulling because in the end people make their own desitions. So even though I dont agree with the magority of govermental sistems I wouldnt say that were anti goverment we all just really love this tv searies.
the only reall antisocialist
As a wise man once said "given time, ALL governments degenerate from their best forms, to their worst"
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..but eatin people alive, where does THAT get fun?
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Perhaps the quasi-navy structure on board Serenity should be replaced by an anarcho-syndicalist commune. You know, with an executive officer for the week. Only Jayne could never be in charge. 
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Did it suddenly get hot in here?
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