The Sorrows Of Empire by Chalmers Johnson
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, September 5, 2026 02:32
VIEWED: 6083
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Anyone here read it? I just skimmed it (My FIL brought a copy over w/him) and BOY does it seem like something we should all take a good look at....
Especially 'some of us' 
Chrisisall
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I haven't read the book, what's it about?
Empires are notoriously bad. It's just an extra big govt. on top of big govt, which exists for no other purpose be to keep growing. The US has always been an empire, it's composed of little or rather normal sized, countries called states.
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I think my mother is reading that. I believe it is one of the things that brought on the latest ventathon in the political observation world of FMF.
My mom could run a country. Shoot - she SHOULD run this one.
We would be WAY better off!
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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
one of the Forsaken TM
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Quote:The dish on the Military Industrial Complex, PNAC, the Empire of the United States, and the history of the direction of this country's government since the Gulf War.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I haven't read the book, what's it about?
Lite reading.
It's heavy Martyisall
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No, but I read Blowback (same author) and Confession of an Economic Hit Man by John perkins, who writes
Quote:Perkins also writes about his role in Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. If you can get around the self-aggrandizement you'll find a lot of specific details about our economic enmeshment with debtor nations.
The book was to be dedicated to the presidents of two countries, men who had been his clients whom I respected and thought of as kindred spirits - Jaime Roldós, president of Ecuador, and Omar Torrijos, president of Panama. Both had just died in fiery crashes. Their deaths were not accidental. They were assassinated because they opposed that fraternity of corporate, government, and banking heads whose goal is global empire. We Economic Hit Men failed to bring Roldós and Torrijos around, and the other type of hit men, the CIA-sanctioned jackals who were always right behind us, stepped in.
I also highly- and I mean HIGHLY- recommend Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond. If you read nothing else, read the chapter on Easter Islanders. Their island no more than 9 miles across- it's day to day condition fully visible to everyone who lived there- and yet they managed to pillage it from a island full of large trees and deep soil to one in where mulching with stones became a necessity and the tallest plant extant was a 3 foot weed. They reduced themselves to a nightmare of barbarism and cannibalism. It drove the point home that entire societies can flush themsleves through sheer stupidity. That book destroyed my faith that people bumbling around will eventually find a path to wisdom.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
The dish on the Military Industrial Complex, PNAC, the Empire of the United States, and the history of the direction of this country's government since the Gulf War.
Ah, or as my mother put it, the protocol of the ninnies of zion. (not an anti-semitic remark, and anti-wolfowitz-perle-remark)
The neocon agenda has been pretty well spelled out, and I think they'd stop at nothing. The upside is that they are so incompetent and pseudo-intellectual that they will fail without any intervention from us. The downside is that they will cause a lot of damage in the process. Best to at the very least get out of the way. Anyway, I'll check out the book. Know thine enemy, and yeah, I hope everyone is on that page, these guys are the enemy, not just a misguided group of folks (that would be al qaeda). At least, that's what my congressman, senior republican representative Sherwood Bohlert said (too bad he's retiring.)
I think the neocons don't realize that they have just about no one fooled. I suspect they're arrogant enough to not care. And for all you on the left, I give you this very clear heads up:
The neocons are making the shift to the democratic party. They know enough to know that they've worn out their welcome on the right. They'll be the ones saying all of, er., some of, the right things, er., the left things, against this admin. without attacking key parts of the agenda. If someone on the left up and says 'the war on terror is a sham' or 'the patriot act is evil' you'll know they're not on the team. If they say 'we need more troops in Iraq,' or 'the problem with Bush is he's too right-wing' they just might be. And I think I've tossed this out a few times, Hillary, Lieberman, Nelson, DiFi, and I'm suspecting Harry Reid, probably a couple others, but they know Bush is a throw away, and are building ranks on the left and are prepared to lead you down the garden path. Learn from our mistakes: don't fall for it.
Thanks for the tip on the book.
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Quote:All too true, and I suspect many won't see it coming, even with warning.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The neocons are making the shift to the democratic party. They know enough to know that they've worn out their welcome on the right.
So many in the U.S. stay fooled and in comfortable submission (See: Hero and AURaptor for example).
I fear our only hope is the psudo-neo-cons continual pressing for war, the body count will shut them down eventually, sad to say...
"We are defined by our enemies" is crap. We define ourselves with our own actions. How much longer will it take until peeps absorb this?
"For God Damn ever, bitch! That's how long! That's how long!" Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:Quote:
The dish on the Military Industrial Complex, PNAC, the Empire of the United States, and the history of the direction of this country's government since the Gulf War.
Ah, or as my mother put it, the protocol of the ninnies of zion. (not an anti-semitic remark, and anti-wolfowitz-perle-remark)
The neocon agenda...
*ahem* ...getting out my favorite soapbox...
If the US is acting imperially (and not having read the book, I'm not commenting one way or the other) and if it has been doing so at least since the Gulf War I (at least, I assume that that's the "Gulf War" Chris referred to above), then America's imperialist ambitions are more deeply seated than the current neo-con government. Truth to tell, Bush and Co. are certainly responsible for contributing to the situation (given that they were in the halls of power when the opportunity for a war rolled around), but they haven't done it single-handedly. I'm of the opinion that our entire political system is broken in some way (electoral college, campaign finance, racial issues, the two-party system--take your pick). It's not that Republicans are pure evil and the country would be steaming nicely twoard Utopia if only Gore had gone to the White House. It's that there's something wrong at a systemic level. Can anyone tell me if this book addresses that? Because I'm far more interested in critical analysis than in a partisan rant.
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Edited to add: don't misunderstand--I'm not downplaying the responsibility of Bush and Co. bear in making some radical advances in the cause of American empire. What I am saying is that they do not bear responsibility alone.
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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.
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Quote:It goes into a history of Empires, and Imperialism and all that led up to this point, it just does it's heavyest hitting in the Post-Gulf War ballpark.
Originally posted by Causal:
It's that there's something wrong at a systemic level. Can anyone tell me if this book addresses that? Because I'm far more interested in critical analysis than in a partisan rant.
Ah...Rome Chrisisall
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