IMHO the biggest problem we face is...
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2006 06:38
VIEWED: 3202
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... overpopulation. Humans have a habit of breeding up to and beyond the carrying capacity of their environment and technology. Then any little thing happens and it all comes crashing down. ( Collapse- How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed Jared Diamond)
There isn't single shortage- prime agricultural land, fresh water, toxic-soup oceans and fisheries, carbon cycle limits, nitrogen cycle limits - that wouldn't be significantly relieved (if not completely solved) if we were talking about a population of one billion people, not six billion people.
We're supposedly an intelligent species, and some societies have actually pulled back fror the brink. It's not as if it can't be done or hasn't been done before. What do you think the ideal worl population should be? And what is the best way to get people to stop breeding like bunnies? Or are we doomed?
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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I think, doomed.
Humans are just too intelligent to live in harmony with nature, because we've managed to mostly remove ourselves from the process of natural selection that would have us thinned out when supplies are low.
Or rather, we are in the process of slowly approaching the limit to even our own ability to maximize what our environment can give us.
We have the increased survival but we're still run by our primitive instincts that are actually supposed to preserve our species, as if we're endangered: breed, expand, further our comfort.
Not to mention, in spite of our numbers, in many societies the individual person will *have* to rely on their offspring to see them through in their old age. The more the better. Systems are inefficient.
Now we're running out of space and drowning in our own waste and pollution.
I think the Firefly 'verse isn't too far off in its idea that further expansion might be the best solution. Humans get bored and destructive when they can't explore/exploit/expand upon something new.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Or are we doomed
Something Agent Smith told Morpheus in the movie Matix has always stuck in my mind - (i know, pop culture quotes are pretty lame - but this one might have some validity to it)
Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.
it's only a matter of time -
"endeavor to persevere..." Chief Dan George as Lone Waite, Indian chief
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Quote:Now you're talking.
Originally posted by SignyM:
There isn't single shortage...that wouldn't be significantly relieved (if not completely solved) if we were talking about a population of one billion people, not six billion people.
If someone is truly concerned about global warming, I think they should be looking at population control--at least as much as they look at fossil fuel emissions. 6 billion people, breathing in and out 24/7, put out a LOT of carbon dioxide and water vapor.
Solution? Space technologies.
And eliminate political artifacts that produce poverty. It seems to me poor people have kids because they are one of the few joys they experience in this short life. Plus kids represent free labor, pension fund, geriatric health care, and converts to their ideology.
Rich people just go out and buy all that stuff.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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I would have said global warming. But I can go with over-population, or over-use of resources. The reason why I say that is b/c the 'West' - but especially the US - uses far more resources per person that anyone else. You could have a large environmental impact by getting rid a small number of the right people.
I was thinking about 'life' the other day - how precarious it is. Every species lives on the brink, since numbers expand to some limiting factor (not always food). For example, orcas live on the edge of food resources. Penguins live on the edge of cold-adaptation. Cheetahs live on the edge of genetic homogeneity. And so on. (Someone pointed that out to me, I can't remember who.)
What humanity has done is harness energy above and beyond muscle power. That includes fire, levers and other tools, animals, and fossil fuel. So humans have expanded beyond their original limiting factors of physical frailty and low reproductive rate, and are bumping up against other limiting factors - global carrying capacity.
Are humans like other animals and biologically programmed to expand to the limiting factors in their environment?
My sense is no - look at the 'demographic transition' - which is the natural reduction of reproduction after a transition to a higher quality of life. (I haven't read anywhere why it happens. It seems to be a mystery.)
Due to technology, individual survival should never be in question. That so many are dying from lack of resources is because of the current paradigm - grab as much as you can, even if you will never use it. Humanity needs another paradigm, one which takes into account individual physical survival can be guaranteed - as long as everyone limits themselves to what they need, what they will use.
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Quote:Which relates to the "Its Disgusting, It Really Is" thread.
Humanity needs another paradigm, one which takes into account individual physical survival can be guaranteed - as long as everyone limits themselves to what they need, what they will use.
THAT thread points out a couple of fundamentally screwy with our current paradigms.
The first is that anyone could somehow "earn" enough to be super-wealthy. I don't care if you're next-to-god on earth... you can be the most brilliant politician, entertainer, or engineer and your individual contribution will *NEVER* be worth 50 billion. The only way to "make" that money is to steal it. Which our system legalizes and promotes as some sort of viable basis.
The other is that the folks who have so much feel compelled to consume their wealth in such frivolous ways. The best thing they can think of is to buy YACHTS??? Man, if I had $100 million I could think of a lot more fun and creative ways to play with my money!!! These people, as rich as they are, are as entranced/ stupefied in our system of wealth and consumption as the lowliest peon. But that's what our society pushes- happiness through massive consumption.
It makes my head hurt just to think about it!
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Instead of a mule and 40 acres.
How bout a firefly and a small moon ?
I want off this damn rock anyway, gimme the means and opportunity to leave it in my dust and I'll be first in line.
Btw - that speech by Agent Smith? - one of the top ten ALL TIME monologues, I gave it a standing-O when I first heard it.
-Frem
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I understand the sentiment !
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Quote:.... interesting observation. I'll need to cogitate on that, but it seems true to me at this point.
if I had $100 million I could think of a lot more fun and creative ways to play with my money!!! These people, as rich as they are, are as entranced/ stupefied in our system of wealth and consumption as the lowliest peon.
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