Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven?

POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Monday, August 7, 2006 22:47
VIEWED: 3163
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ERIC

Monday, July 31, 2006 7:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I wonder what would happen if we let all of those factions separate? The Civil War for example. From what I understand, the South wouldn't have survived very long as an economic power anyway... 9 million population (of which 4 million were slaves) versus a population of 21 million, and total economic output that didn't even match New York State.

I always thought we should have let the south go. They would have collapsed after a few years anyway, suffered international isolation over slavery, sanctions imposed by the Union including probably a cotton boycott, and eventual infrastructure failure. We could have then just walked right in and taken over, no war. They might even welcome it at that point. Outlaw the confederate flag (no longer a romantic symbol of those who fought and died for their 'native state'

), mandate a certain number of educated freed slaves in Congress for a few years, install carpetbaggers in most local offices. Southern 'culture' could have been effectively annihilated without spilling blood. Oh well. As they like to say, 'the south shall rise again!' I hope so, then we can kick its ass again, and this time, no reconstruction.

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

SIMONWHO

Monday, July 31, 2006 8:00 PM

It's one thing to argue that some countries need a strong leader. It's quite another to argue that they're not bad guys - they're evil men who have found their niche.

Doubtlessly you could have argued in 1989 that South Africa needed apartheid to keep it from descending into civil war or that a "weak" leader like Nelson Mandela would only lead to bloodshed and chaos. And you'd have been dead wrong.

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GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 12:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I wonder what would happen if we let all of those factions separate? The Civil War for example. From what I understand, the South wouldn't have survived very long as an economic power anyway... 9 million population (of which 4 million were slaves) versus a population of 21 million, and total economic output that didn't even match New York State.

I always thought we should have let the south go. They would have collapsed after a few years anyway, suffered international isolation over slavery, sanctions imposed by the Union including probably a cotton boycott, and eventual infrastructure failure. We could have then just walked right in and taken over, no war. They might even welcome it at that point. Outlaw the confederate flag (no longer a romantic symbol of those who fought and died for their 'native state' ), mandate a certain number of educated freed slaves in Congress for a few years, install carpetbaggers in most local offices. Southern 'culture' could have been effectively annihilated without spilling blood. Oh well. As they like to say, 'the south shall rise again!' I hope so, then we can kick its ass again, and this time, no reconstruction.

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

One thing I would like to point out, is that the civil war didn't benefit the former slaves

many were tossed out and found themselves homeless, and jobless...

From reading some of the pre-war literature, my feeling is rather than abolishing slavery as Lincoln tried to do, there was room for considerable negotiation.

If they had agreed to phase out slavery over ten to twenty years, with an increase in rights, work and living conditions, education, etc going towards the slaves... perhaps history would have turned out quite differently.

Instead we had a bloody and costly war, segeration, all manner or racial problems.

An investment back then to help those people find a place in the society they were forced into would still be paying dividends today.

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Yes, it has to be said the RAF invented the 'game' of Kurd gassing.
Oh. I didn't know that.

I wonder what would happen if we let all of those factions separate? The Civil War for example. From what I understand, the South wouldn't have survived very long as an economic power anyway... 9 million population (of which 4 million were slaves) versus a population of 21 million, and total economic output that didn't even match New York State.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

Apparently he wanted to use even more gas

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,939608,00.html

I have also read in some of his pre-WW2 writings he suggested that a system of forced labour camps be establish throughout India in order to work to death any troublemakers there.

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, August 1, 2006 9:51 AM

*erupts randomly into thread, bringing all the little demons with her*

Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

ANTIMASON

Friday, August 4, 2006 7:13 AM

just an opinion of course, but i think the reason Iraq has gone to Hell is because the Iraqis fear a democracy put in place by a nation which they cannot trust, due to inherint conflicts of interest within our own political structure; especially in post 9/11 fascist/socialist America.

maybe they fear a pro-western puppet regime being installed, which can be as easily manuplated as our system. is it better than a dicatorship? were the Iraqis glad when Saddam was taken from power? it seemed so...so what happened?

we must have lost their trust, by exposing our true colors. i dont deny that their are honost, sincere, genuinely good hearted soldiers in Iraq, doing the Iraqis a good service; and i thank them for their service to this country, in light of the fact that our government has been less then straighforward and forthcoming with them. but they are overshadowed by men behind the scenes, who see Iraq as a strategic launching pad to tame the middle east into accepting global governance. and their motives are less then palatable, and given that we are technically an occupying force, even more threatening.

i dont condone murder, or violence in any shape or form..i want a democracy for the Iraqis too, they deserve every freedom we have...but a legitimate one, of their own making, based on truth and love, that doesnt come at the expense of the lives of thousands of innocent people.

no one in their right mind would be opposed to a free democracy, especially not the Iraqis. so why do the insurgents? its not as if theyre rebels fighting for liberty, according to the Media they hate freedom..so what is their motivation? maybe they dont see our presence and benevolent

i realize you cant have your cake, and eat it too..maybe my "everybody love one another" hope is just a fantasy, like i said its just an opinion, but i believe the legitimate cause of creating a democracy in Iraq has become a front for a more insidious alterior motive of creating a NWO, which has compromised the stability of the region beyond all measure

and our CIA helped put Saddam in to begin with...so the whole thing is just a mess, either way you look at it

PLOTTWIST2

Monday, August 7, 2006 9:39 PM

george bush is worse than saddam.

PAGANPAUL

Monday, August 7, 2006 9:44 PM

Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

DUKKATI

Monday, August 7, 2006 10:47 PM

yeah

your right he would make a good leader in Iraq...because that's all those people seem to want.

I wouldn't doubt one bit that he gets turned lose and put back in power after we get done rebuilding that country...

I've been through the system.
It dont work.

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