Its disgusting, it really is.
POSTED BY: Smartbutdumbblonde
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2006 05:13
VIEWED: 6387
PAGE 2 of 6
Great jumpin jeepers, finally someone other than me put 2+2 together and got four!
Every time I hear "Free Market" I cringe, because in all their moronic assessments, they forget the vile tendancy of those who DO have an exploitive lock to protect it by any means necessary - or, if they're arm-in-arm with some of those corporations, they make sure NOT to mention it, either way, the subject never comes up.
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A free market and the force to defend it will keep the poor person from going back into the hole of poverty.
That means, when corpo-agro decides to ruin your seed stock, salt your fields in the dead of night, or fly their choppers over your livestock attempting to stampede them... YOU SHOOT THEM.
And society MUST justify that action, or you have no Free Market.
Because without that caveat, there's really nothing to protect a small operator, since a supercorp is perfectly willing to take the slap on the wrist fine for almost any level of nastiness up to and including murder, to remove or eliminate your competition from THEIR "Free" market.
And that's what most of these shills are saying when they mouth the words - I prefer regulation over corpodominance... and as an Anarchist, I despise regulation.
But unless you're willing to face the fact that violence is going to occur within a free market simply due to human nature, than one should not go extolling the merits of a free market, cause that is not what it would be.
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To truly break free, the poor man has to have a deregulated small business market and enough force to defend the market's political independence. (Think of the brothel in "Heart of Gold." They needed weapons and force to defend their business from being destroyed by the rich and powerful.)
Over a decade of folks pounding on about the "Free Market" and CTS here is the FIRST person other than myself to mention this little speedbump on the way to achieving one... and what that tells me is that the folks mouthing the words are ignorant, incompetent, or have interest in the kind of "Free Market" that allows corporations like Enron or Haliburton to run roughshod and unhindered over everyone else.
Or worse, consider what they'll do to each other ?
Free Markets = Corporate Wars ?
That's a chilling thought, isn't it ?
-Frem
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Smart
Well said! Rant away!
People making money off the "little people" of the world need to give something back.
one of the Forsaken TM
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Whenever I hear "free market" I remeber the period and place where there was one, when there was no or at least next to no, government regulation, the period that free market capitalists like to forget about and ignore because it was a shit time to live in.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:LOL. Say what you really think, Frem!
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
That means, when corpo-agro decides to ruin your seed stock, salt your fields in the dead of night, or fly their choppers over your livestock attempting to stampede them... YOU SHOOT THEM.
My husband used to travel extensively in Africa. (And not the touristy 5-star hotels type of travel either.) He once told me a story he heard. We don't know if it is true or not, but he believes that it could very well be.
A corporation went to the Congo to do some mining. The business mined the crap out of the land, destroyed the ecosystem, and polluted their river. The tribes that lived out in the bush asked them to stop and fix what was ruined and clean up the river. The corporation refused. The tribe killed everyone in the company. The company destroyed their livelihoods and threatened their survival. What the company did was the equivalent of bulldozing their homes and robbing them of everything they owned. In the tribe's view, they were retaliating. The next company that came around might be more considerate.
Many people don't think of economic oppression or environmental destruction as initiation of force. But it is. I agree with you, Frem. I feel folks have a right to defend their livelihoods and capital, which buys their independence and freedom.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Quote:I consider myself a free market capitalist. (REAL free market capitalism, not this fake shit we have now where greed climbs in bed with the law and calls their dirty little deals deregulation.) And I don't argue that a true free market is a shitty way to live.
Originally posted by citizen:
the period that free market capitalists like to forget about and ignore because it was a shit time to live in.
I think that is one reason I love Firefly so much. True freedom and free market is not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Freedom is escaping bullies and sadists and bounty hunters. Freedom is negotiating with people like Patience. Freedom is where there are no cops to defend you, and you have to shoot people like Patience yourself.
I don't hold any romantic notions about what real freedom would mean. It is harsh and hard and I don't blame anyone who prefers not to have freedom. I only resent it when they tell me I can't have freedom.
So Frem, when you do want to come over and we'll go start our own lawless country? :)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Hmm.. would it actually be a "Country" if it were lawless ?
More of a collective, one would think, but there would be ONE law.
Everyone. Must. Be. Armed.
Period.
The first defense of life, liberty, property and personhood is the ability and willingness to defend it, and someone unwilling to do so... is just fully beyond my comprehension, as is someone suffering the dichotomy of being unwilling, yet willing to depend on others to do so for them.
But, lets say we buy some unwanted chunk of real estate out in the boonies, or some deserted island, theoretically.... first things first, you'd need a NoookYularr weapon, even just one, to keep those american bullies out, or at least do a Chavez and show them you're willing to actually fight by buying enough firepower to do so, as a discouragement, and one that works well.
By choice, I would populate it with a mix of Finns and Russian peasants... why ?
Well, the Finns, as a rule, are not very aggressive - right up to the moment you step on their land and try to take it from them, and then they go back to their unrepentant barbaric roots and kick your ass right out of it.
Google: Winter War + Finland.
As for the Russian peasants ?
Ever seen those movies where the peasants flee before the invading horde ?
(The peasants of Rohan in LoTR come to mind immediately)
Russian peasants don't do that, they poison the wells, salt the fields, burn the crops and then spit on their hands and take up hoes and pitchforks, standing as fast as the Spartans over the body of Leonidas - and they WILL resist you, to the last dying breath, as Hitler learned when they cut his supply lines to ribbons.
Not to mention neither of them has a great deal of trust or use for government as an institution.
As far as currency, the lesson of the eleventh round stands out pretty clear, currency devolves into fiat money which devolves society itself.
http://alternativeperspective.blogspot.com/2005/04/eleventh-round-fabl
e.html
Currency discourages community and thus none would be offered or invented.
And Usury would be an outright shootin offense.
Laws ? nope.. I rather suspect these things would be every bit as self-enforcing as not parking your car sideways across a four lane highway.
A nice theoretical, mind you, but if you dare offer an alternative to the current system of debt-slaves serving a powerful elite, they WILL kill you, bank on it.
Which is one reason I am so all-fired for space exploration and travel, you get far ENOUGH away, out in the black, they can't find you, can't reach you, can't hassle you.
I suspect that message had a lil bit to do with why our show was cancelled.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Smartbutdumbblonde:
they are willing to spend something like $15,000 dollars on a belt buckle, that they will probably only wear once, while there are billions of people out there starving to death because they don't even have enough money to buy food.
...
Maybe the developed world should stop being so obsessed with the material, celebrity culture, and focus our intentions, and our money on the people who really need it.
I agree completely.Quote:
Originally posted by Smartbutdumbblonde:
Here's an example. Ralph Lauren spent $200,000 on a fence for his ranch. A fence.
You couldn't have picked a worse example. First off, fences aren't exactly cheap. Secondly, when you have to build one for your ranch, they tend to be *very* long. Thus, quite expensive. Go ahead, ask any rancher that has built a fence to keep the cattle in.
Not to mention that he probably needs rather good security b/c he has a lot of cash to keep people out from hurting him, or kidnapping him, or...
On the other hand, if you would have mentioned a $50 mil USD home, then you'd have something.
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
Thanks for the pointer, granted, I don't know alot about fences, so OK, that was a bad example. I kind of thought that it was extravagant because this is the same guy who paid someone good money to make his ranch door squeak, to make it sound authentic. And, now you mention it, someone did spend £47million on a holiday home.
By the way, what does USD stand for?
***************
I haven't had this much fun since the last time I ate a lightbulb
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Everyone. Must. Be. Armed.
Period.
The first defense of life, liberty, property and personhood is the ability and willingness to defend it, and someone unwilling to do so... is just fully beyond my comprehension, as is someone suffering the dichotomy of being unwilling, yet willing to depend on others to do so for them.
Well, the idea behind a country where everyone. isn't. armed. is that they don't have guns, and then you don't need a gun to fight them, and everyone is a lot safer.
not lazy just don't care (about anything but Firefly)
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Quote:Every time I hear about some big charitable giveway, these lines pop into my head:
If it's any comfort, the two richest people in the world are currently in the process of giving nearly all their money away to charity.
Quote:Poverty is not a "natural" state. it is CREATED by our economic system... as is egregious weatlh. After all.,.. how do you think the rich got rich in the first place?
Pity would be no more
If we did not make somebody poor
William Blake
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Hmm.. would it actually be a "Country" if it were lawless ?
No, we don't have to start out with an membership application to the UN. *snicker*
Remember those bush people in Africa? No one messes with them. They are a sovereign nation; they just don't have their own color on the geopolitical map.
We go there with a chunk of money, buy some land and set up the infrastructure needed for a modern society (so we can continue coming to FFF.net). And we put modern weapons in the hands of the bush people. Under the radar. Hopefully, no one will care we built our own private Disneyworld in the middle of Africa.
Finns and Russians would be welcome. Anyone would be welcome. Personally, I lean toward inviting American Indian Vietnam vets. Talk about people who distrust government--and have the combat experience to back it up. Haha.
A group of us will chip in voluntarily and contract a manager and some staff to oversee public services that can't be handled as well privately: buying and demarking public property to be used as roads, underground sewer system, pipelines for water and gas and the like; and printing currency.
I like the convenience of currency, gold-standard currency. I really don't like hauling chickens around. We can just dispense with the eleventh round. But currency use doesn't have to be compulsory. People can use whatever they want.
Quote:That includes men, women, children--and dogs.
Everyone. Must. Be. Armed.
Period.
Quote:You just can't have sovereignty without owning the ground under your feet. And all ground on earth has already been claimed. We all have to stand on something, even if it is just an old spaceship.
you get far ENOUGH away, out in the black, they can't find you, can't reach you, can't hassle you.
I think the point of all this is to say, buying wells for villagers instead of a belt buckle won't relieve their poverty. If someone really wants to relieve the poverty of those villagers, they would buy guns for them. Which is why it is forbidden by law. Which is why poverty is a political artifact, not an economic one. Which is why poverty can never be solved by charity.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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