Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven?

POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Monday, August 7, 2006 22:47
VIEWED: 3163
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SUCCATASH

Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:34 PM

We have extreme chaos in Iraq. Sounds like hell to me. Is it possible that Iraq actually needs someone like Saddam Hussein? Who else could keep order in such chaos? Hell plays by different rules.

Maybe Saddam isn't such a bad guy after all. Ruling in Hell can't be easy.

MISUNDERSTOOD?

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

CITIZEN

Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:56 PM

It's the way it is because the invasion from conception through implementation and occupation till today was ill conceived, mismanaged and planned by people who really did not and do not have a clue about what they are doing.

Although really what does it say? Is George Bush a worse president than Saddam Hussein?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

HERO

Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
It's the way it is because the invasion from conception through implementation and occupation till today was ill conceived, mismanaged and planned by people who really did not and do not have a clue about what they are doing.

I think that the present Isreali conflict explains much of trouble we seem to be having in Iraq.

Its a matter of media coverage and holding Isreal or the US to some sort of enhanced standard of conduct while virtually ignoring the conduct of the enemy.

For example. The Hezbo's launch rockets from behind a building. Isreal warns the residents to flee, waits, more rockets, waits, more rockets, then bombs the crap out of the area and surprise...Isreal just killed a bunch of kids. Same thing happened at a UN outpost the other day (lets not dwell on Hezi's use of the UN Peacekeeps as cover).

The problem is not the US or our failed efforts in Iraq or Isreal's lack of restraint.

The one and only failure here is the inability of the terrorists to assemble peacefully in a large tract of uninhaited wilderness for efficient elimination. Until they agree to take this sensible action, civilian casualties are not only inevitable but reasonable under the circumstances.

H

SUCCATASH

Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:37 PM

Back to Saddam...

Maybe he was a good leader because he kept all the different factions from blowing each other up.

Stability. What Iraq lacks right now.

Hero says it's a matter of media coverage, but he helps make my point that in Hell the rules are different. Saddam juggled live grenades every day for fun.

Saddam has proved that without him, Iraq would plunge into civil war. The U.S. has not made Iraq a better place since we removed Saddam. Quite the opposite is going on.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

CITIZEN

Monday, July 31, 2006 12:00 AM

Yeah but it has a dictator now. He's just not quite on the same planet as the rest of the Human race.

But Hero has a point on media coverage, much of Western (especially US) media is very much biased toward making Israel and the US look like the good guys at any cost.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

SUCCATASH

Monday, July 31, 2006 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
much of Western (especially US) media is very much biased toward making Israel and the US look like the good guys at any cost.

So you are implying that Saddam was a good leader, under the circumstances? Unfairly portrayed by western media as the new Hitler?

--

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, July 31, 2006 2:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
much of Western (especially US) media is very much biased toward making Israel and the US look like the good guys at any cost.

So you are implying that Saddam was a good leader, under the circumstances? Unfairly portrayed by western media as the new Hitler?

--

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

A good example of what I think you are suggesting would be Tito in Yugoslavia. While some of his actions were deemed harsh by the outside ( western ) world, he kept apart factions which had been at each other for hundreads of years, and turned the country into the number one GNP on the med at the same time. Mind you he managed to keep out the foreign influences that helped Yugoslavia come apart, Saddam while in power embraced foreign influence, particularly that of the US during the Iran/Iraq war. If you sell your soul, then it stays sold I guess, or there is hell to pay...

As for Saddams actions to maintain power within Iraq, I'll say this.

If your going to condemn Saddam and rip down his statues for using gas to contain the Kurdish people and suppress their rebellion, then all stautes of Winston Churchill should be ripped down and his name spat upon, because he did the very same.

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 31, 2006 4:08 PM

As usual, you make a good and thought provoking point, 'Tash.

I figure yeah, you prolly have to have a bit of an iron fist to keep some countries together, and be both ruthless and willing to go to extremes to keep them that way.

First example would be Castro - he's kept Cuba prettymuch on an even keel for a long time, although not fond of his methods, they do the job, and in spite of interference from us on a regular basis.

Second example (apologists, cue here for the screaming) would be Abraham Lincoln - strip away the veneer of BS that's been laquered on over the years, and you have an iron-fisted dictator who slaughtered hundreds of thousands in the name of "Order", and he did win, at a cost we're finally realizing, but he did win.

Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, they all kept an orderly society.. not one a lotta folks here would be so keen on living in mind you, but they kept the peace, sure.

Thing is, a true change of rule never occurs externally, never, ever, ever - if *enough* of the populace had wanted Saddam out, he would have in the end, wound up like Mussolini - but instead we make him a martyr ? stupid, stupid, STUPID.

The harder you press one of these hardcases, the more their own people rally in behind em, even if they hated em in the first place - Castro is a good example of this.

This of course makes it abundantly obvious that whatever puppet regime we set up there, if we do not spend insane resources to support and defend it, will be toppled in short order by pissed off locals who want it gone - which is how ALL governments eventually fall.

So these iron-handed goons, monsters that they were, were still supported by enough of the people for some time, which means that the people preferred them there to the alternatives, cause no matter how good your army, your secret police, your defenses, if *enough* of the population wants you gone... you're gone.

Some folks out on the east coast need to be thinkin about that one themselves, these days.

-Frem

CITIZEN

Monday, July 31, 2006 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
If your going to condemn Saddam and rip down his statues for using gas to contain the Kurdish people and suppress their rebellion, then all stautes of Winston Churchill should be ripped down and his name spat upon, because he did the very same.

Yes, it has to be said the RAF invented the 'game' of Kurd gassing.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

SIGNYM

Monday, July 31, 2006 4:18 PM

Quote:
Yes, it has to be said the RAF invented the 'game' of Kurd gassing.

Oh. I didn't know that.

I wonder what would happen if we let all of those factions separate? The Civil War for example. From what I understand, the South wouldn't have survived very long as an economic power anyway... 9 million population (of which 4 million were slaves) versus a population of 21 million, and total economic output that didn't even match New York State.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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