Did anyone notice that in the 'Serenity' episode, when Simon...

POSTED BY: QuietSerenity
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 15:18
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GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:24 PM

Wash is still alive.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:21 PM

Hmm. I could buy a post-rescue cryo-freezing, I guess. Especially if maybe she flipped out onboard the rescue ship once the adrenalin of the rescue was over (and that would also explain some of the disorientation when she came out of cryo). Or maybe they had actually been prepared to bring her out unconscious (maybe that pulse thing was supposed to hit everyone, including her) and they went with that plan once she was out, even though she was awake.

So, in our retcon, Simon had a crucial part in the rescue, but lied about his exact role to Mal and co. on account of how he didn't actually know or trust them yet.

At the time he was asking about what Dr. Matthias had done to her, he wasn't actually focussing on what was being said (and I don't remember if the amydala stripping was specifically mentioned in the BDM, anyway), he was just trying to figure out where everyone in the room was and whether they were within range, and how much med support she would need once he pulls those electrodes out of her head; which would explain why he wanted detailed scans in "Ariel".

And even though he was told she was being trained as a weapon, this was still his little sister they were talking about and he never really did believe that someone so peaceable and kindhearted would actually be able to scale walls and shoot guns and the like, which would explain his bewilderment on that front later.

God bless fanwankery -- it lets me pretend the 'verse is real, one day at a time :)

Indigo S.

ZOID

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:41 PM

Hey, ever'body!

Just had to chime in a little, here. Ummm, I think there was a conscious effort in the movie to 'rehabilitate' Simon's character in one fell swoop, hoping nobody would notice.

Simon is so inept throughout the series that even his psychic sister calls him a "boob". If he's 'playing dumb', wouldn't she know? I think she would. So, I'll buy the 'dumb' part, but not the 'playing'.

Secondly, rewatch the episodes where Simon poses as someone else. Remember his portrayal of the rich mud buyer? In the series, Simon doesn't have a disingenuous bone in his body, and he's really only a boy, with a code of honor given him by his parents, not earned through experience.

But in the opening of the movie (flashbacked, supposedly before the events of the series), Simon's all 'growed up', a man of action, and a master of disguise and wiles...

Uh... Yeah.

The Simon we knew and loved from the series would have stunned himself and then fallen to the floor, while River's torturers tried to figure out what just happened...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"That there? 'Xactly the kind of diversion we coulda used." -Jayne Cobb, Firefly, "Shindig"

CLIOMUSE

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:50 PM

He certainly had no problem figuring out how to get into an Alliance hospital and lying his way through it in "Ariel." He's really only a boob when he's trying to interact with people who aren't from his world.

ZOID

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:40 PM

Cliomuse wrote:

Quote:
He certainly had no problem figuring out how to get into an Alliance hospital and lying his way through it in "Ariel." He's really only a boob when he's trying to interact with people who aren't from his world.

I'm not saying he's not a doctor. I'm saying he's not anything else. Certainly not a master of intrigue, able to sneak into a top-secret government research facility, posing as an Alliance muckedy-muck. (NB: Ariel's was a civilian hospital, without the "Fine Young Cannibals" Blue Hands guys, let's not forget.)

'Series Simon' would have wet himself...

v/r,
-zed

P.S.
I know a lot of folks are pulling for the Simon character, and I am too. But in the series he was endearingly clueless; in the movie, he was a "double-nought spy" (Beverly Hillbillies reference, y'all, as in 'James Bond, double-nought seven'). That's an inconsistancy in the development of his character, no matter how you try to spin it. I think Joss didn't have time or space in the movie for 'clueless', so he changed him to 'cool' for the sake of expediency...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

TALISKER

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:56 PM

Another theory on River's freezing: Simon was worried that River's condition might become worse if it was left untreated. So, he stuck her in a cryo pod until he could get her to proper treatment facilities (he may or may not have had a coherent plan for doing this, before he decided they were better off on Serenity). Also, while two fugitives might be able to hide from the Alliance, it becomes rather more difficult if one of them is prone to random psychotic episodes...

As for River being made into a weapon: This might not mean being trained with guns and knives. If I were an Evil Alliance Mastermind, I certainly would not send a billion-dollar superwoman into the trenches with the infantry, where a stray bullet or explosion would kill her just as quickly as anyone else. On the other hand, those perfect reflexes and spatial awareness would be rather useful for a fighter pilot.

I see the Alliance as not necessarily knowing what River would be capable of, or intending to use her as a soldier, spy or assassin. It could simply have been an experiment to see what their biotechnology would do, gathering data which might allow them to make reliable super-warriors in 5 or 10 or 20 years' time. "Aha, she performs with extraordinary grace in the tests. A pity she's too unstable for field service, but we should be able to improve on that in the next model..."

Another thought: Might the Operative have been subject to a similar but less severe form of physical/mental alteration and reconditioning? He's not quite sane either, and also has a thing about swords...

=======================================

He killed me, Mal. He killed me with a sword. How weird is that?

FIREFLYGAL

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Cliomuse wrote:
Quote:
He certainly had no problem figuring out how to get into an Alliance hospital and lying his way through it in "Ariel." He's really only a boob when he's trying to interact with people who aren't from his world.

I'm not saying he's not a doctor. I'm saying he's not anything else. Certainly not a master of intrigue, able to sneak into a top-secret government research facility, posing as an Alliance muckedy-muck. (NB: Ariel's was a civilian hospital, without the "Fine Young Cannibals" Blue Hands guys, let's not forget.)

'Series Simon' would have wet himself...

v/r,
-zed

P.S.
I know a lot of folks are pulling for the Simon character, and I am too. But in the series he was endearingly clueless; in the movie, he was a "double-nought spy" (Beverly Hillbillies reference, y'all, as in 'James Bond, double-nought seven'). That's an inconsistancy in the development of his character, no matter how you try to spin it. I think Joss didn't have time or space in the movie for 'clueless', so he changed him to 'cool' for the sake of expediency...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

Remember, Simon was rescuing his beloved mei-mei in Serenity. When it's someone you love, sometimes you're capable of doing the impossible. Any other time he turns back into a boob, more or less.

I aim to misbehave!

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VETERAN

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:23 PM

Quote:
Talisker wrote:
Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:56

.....Another thought: Might the Operative have been subject to a similar but less severe form of physical/mental alteration and reconditioning? He's not quite sane either, and also has a thing about swords...

Maybe he was a precursor.

KAYNA

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:39 PM

Yes characters had to be changed to save time in the movie but I can still rationalize discrepencies.

In the pilot, Simon never specificaly said he didn't participate in River's rescue. He said these people agreed to get her out and into chryo. He didn't say they would do it alone. For me, he doesn't lie, so much as omit parts of the truth. I like to believe that the resistance people got him in and they were the ones with the transport and the chryo. Since these resistance fighters aproached him and not the other way around, I think they knew a bit about what was going on. They knew River was potentially unstable and dangerous so it would make sense for the person that actually went in to be someone she knows and trusts.

As to the clueless thing, he becomes a lot less clueless and bumbling whenever River is in trouble. Joss mentiones in the pilot commentary that Simon becomes a "man of action" when River is in danger. Just look at how he acts in OiS. And yes he was a horrible liar in Janestown. He also had no warning or preperation. And, as previously mentioned, Canton was about as far from the world he knows as you can get.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

LISSA37

Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:05 AM

Kayna -- I like your analysis. Simon does act differently in different situations. He's smart, quick, and brave when River's in trouble or when medicine is involved (I love how he just jumps in and saves that man during "Ariel"!). But, when he's out of his element and perhaps not particularly interested in what he's attempting to do (i.e. the awful lying in "Jaynestown"), he falls apart.

Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown -- In our hearts he is. <3

*****
"I'm a leaf on the wind..." - Wash

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