Did anyone notice that in the 'Serenity' episode, when Simon...

POSTED BY: QuietSerenity
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 15:18
VIEWED: 6533
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QUIETSERENITY

Monday, July 24, 2006 5:16 PM

I know we've discussed the Firefly and Serenity discrepancy at length, but here's something that my husband just noticed today...

The whole time Simon is telling his story to everyone, there is soft background music behind him. He's rambling, spilling his guts, in point of fact. Up until the point that he says "They're hurting us. Get me out."

At this point, Zoe asks him how he did it. And the music stops. There isn't anything behind him but silence. This is where my husband believes the lie begins. As soon as Simon says the word money.

I was always listening to the words, not the music behind them. I know that Whedon said he had to manipulate what had already been said for the movie, but...

Could we have been tipped off from the beginning?

Mal: You know, you ain't quite right.
River: It's a popular theory.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, July 24, 2006 8:50 PM

It always made sense to me that Simon wouldn't tell people he didn't yet trust that Alliance personell had seen him, and that he was guilty of assaulting several of them. I don't think Joss "knew" Simon had rescued River himself at the time, but for me it doesn't clash.

The music thing is damn interesting though!

TEACHDAIRE

Monday, July 24, 2006 9:19 PM

I agree. It was just a convenient excuse to use to a group of what he thought at the time "mercenaries".

For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:17 PM

Interesting, but I think there are still too many discrepancies for it to have "really" happened as shown in the BDM (the cryogenic freezing of River, the fact that Simon didn't know her amygdala had been stripped as of the episode "Ariel", the fact that Simon seemed genuinely taken aback by Kaylee's description of how River could handle a gun).

One interesting fan-theory I read elsewhere on this site is that the BDM version is River's dream/fantasy about how she was rescued -- that she dreamed/fantasized that her beloved older brother had come swooping in and that she had been able to participate in her own rescue, rather than what really happened -- being frozen and shipped off by an anonymous resistance group.

Indigo S.

LISSA37

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by IndigoStarblaster:

One interesting fan-theory I read elsewhere on this site is that the BDM version is River's dream/fantasy about how she was rescued -- that she dreamed/fantasized that her beloved older brother had come swooping in and that she had been able to participate in her own rescue, rather than what really happened -- being frozen and shipped off by an anonymous resistance group.

Indigo S.

That's an interesting theory... but I don't see how it could be real. We see the people at the Academy watching the tape of Simon taking River in the BDM. They can't share River's fantasy. Unless... do they mean all of that was her fantasy? I don't know.

The music thing is a neat observation, whether it means anything or not. It seems possible that maybe Simon was lying all along... after all, he didn't really know if he could trust the Serenity crew yet or not, right? So, he could've lied to them. Interesting. IndigoStarblaster has a good point, though -- he was told River was trained to be a weapon, why would he be surprised that she can handle a gun? Hmmm. It's a lot to think about.

*****
"I'm a leaf on the wind..." - Wash

SPACEANJL

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:35 PM

Simon was getting ready to blow their little minds when Matthias told him that River was trained for combat. I don't think he was shown that training - he's a bit gobsmacked at her running up the wall - and I also think that Matthias assumes that the 'inspector' has some prior knowledge of their experiments. All Simon is seeing is a bunch of men poking needles in his sister. He states a few times that he doesn't know what they were doing, or why. The BDM had to cram a lot in, and bits fell off.

GWEK

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:57 PM

Simon wasn't lying in the series. Joss has stated that his original intention (in the series) was that it played out as Simon stated, but that, for the movie, he had to trim characters and sub-plots, so in telling a 2-hour story, it became necessary to change his original intention.

While Joss makes no attempt to reconcile the discrepancy (and he does not need to, until Firefly returns to the small screen), a number of fans have done so fairly successfully, and Whedon has said that they've done a good job of it (don't recall which explanation he was referring to specifically).

In essence, there are two different continuities: a TV series continuity in which Simon hires folks to rescue River, and a movie continuity in which he does it himself (there are other discrepancies in the two, but this is one of the most obvious and glaring). Whedon did a similar juggling act when he ret-conned (used "retro-continuity") top bring the Buffy movie more in like with the series.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

ALLISA

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:10 PM

another theory - there is a ship that waits for Simon and River on the "surface" - perhaps these are the underground revolters he spoke of? And they - knowing part of what had been done to River - were uneasy about having her romping about the ship and so suggested it would be easier to smuggle her about in a freezer ;)

You know what the chain of command is here? Its the chain I go get to beat you with to show you whose in command!

MICJWELCH

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lissa37:
They can't share River's fantasy. Unless... do they mean all of that was her fantasy? I don't know.

I have heard that theory a lot actually. It seems to be more of a way of finding a way for Book and Wash to come back. People just want to believe they never died.

I know things changed a bit from the series to the movie. I can believe though that Simon was lying about how he got her out. River might have been in cryo just because it's easier for one person and his luggage to disappear than two fugitives.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

LISSA37

Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by micjwelch:
Quote:
Originally posted by Lissa37:
They can't share River's fantasy. Unless... do they mean all of that was her fantasy? I don't know.

I have heard that theory a lot actually. It seems to be more of a way of finding a way for Book and Wash to come back. People just want to believe they never died.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

I wouldn't mind that! Wash... *tear*

No, seriously, as much as I'd give just about anything to hear that Wash didn't really die... If it were all River's fantasy or in some other way not real, that would be absolutely bizarre and I don't think it would go over very well with most audiences.

*****
"I'm a leaf on the wind..." - Wash

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