Illegal Immigration- what to do?

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, May 12, 2023 14:24
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RUE

Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:19 PM

I'm just interjecting that roughly 10% of the entire population of Mexico resides in the US. Does that seem weird to anyone else?

SERGEANTX

Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Unfortunately we live in a much different time now. How can all the immigrants who want to come to America be properly screened for past indiscretions. The Country's infrastructure could not possibly support the additional mass of people which could be expected. New immigrants might have to live in camps and not get access to doctors or schools. This may have been a viable option 90 years ago, but not so much today.

De-lurking to stir stuff up.

I don't really buy any of this. I know it's the 'conventional wisdom', but it seems like a convenient rationalization for more selfish motives.

We've all got our 'indiscretions'. Or our immigrant ancestors certainly did.

Living in camps? Well, I guess that's their call. I doubt it would be that bad, but if they were willing to go through that to be a US citizen, well, citizens with that kind of enthusiasm would be a welcome addition, eh?

My guess is that today's immigrants would have an easier time of than they did 90 years ago.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm just interjecting that roughly 10% of the entire population of Mexico resides in the US. Does that seem weird to anyone else?

Just as a thought experiment, try crunching the numbers on what would happen if the entire population of Mexico moved to the US.

It's the end-of-the-world scenario for those who want to shut our borders. Likelihood of it happening, even with an open-door immigration policy, is so low as to be negligible. And the results surprised me (especially if you compare it to the percentage of foreign born and non-English speaking Americans of the total population during the late nineteenth, early twentieth, centuries).

*edited to add one table:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0029/tab02.html

* edited again. Mexico population at about 100 million. 10% already here. Using numbers from above link and census data from 2000.
year (percentage of population foreign born)
1850 (9.68%)
1860 (13.16%)
1870 (14.44%)
1880 (13.32%)
1890 (14.77%)
1900 (13.61%)
1910 (14.70%)
1920 (13.17%)
1930 (11.57%)
1940 (8.81%)
1950 (6.89%)
1960 (5.43%)
1970 (4.73%)
1980 (6.22%)
1990 (7.95%)
2000 (11.05%)
2000 + 90 million from Mexico (32.61%)

We could absorb the entire population of Mexico and the entire foreign born population of the United States would be a third of the total population.

As it stands, the foreign born population of the US is proportionally below historical highs (although moving in that direction).

I can't find the data I used for the language numbers. So I'll withdraw that part.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I don't really buy any of this. I know it's the 'conventional wisdom', but it seems like a convenient rationalization for more selfish motives.

In your opinion, what do you think these selfish motives are?

Quote:

We've all got our 'indiscretions'. Or our immigrant ancestors certainly did.

I agree that we all have our indiscretions. I was trying to politely state that it would be nice to know, at the very least, if any of the new immigrants have criminal records in their countries of origin.

Quote:

Living in camps? Well, I guess that's their call. I doubt it would be that bad, but if they were willing to go through that to be a US citizen, well, citizens with that kind of enthusiasm would be a welcome addition, eh?

In my neck of the woods, finding any type of housing is becoming increasingly difficult. Lower cost or affordable housing is almost non-existant. I guess you could 'suggest' certain areas of the Country where immigrants could settle based on socio-economic factors.

Quote:

My guess is that today's immigrants would have an easier time of than they did 90 years ago.

I agree with this statement if the immigrants come to America with some funds. Unfortunately a number of immigrants come to America because they are trying to escape the low standard of living in their Countries of origin. I'm not against immigration at all. I just think it should be somewhat controlled to ensure the newcomers both pay into the 'system' as well as reap the benefits of the 'system'.

Letting in too many people too fast may actually solve the illegal immigration problem. As numbers grow and services cannot keep up, Folks might start moving on (or up

) to greener pastures.

De-lurking to stir stuff up.

HIPPIEBROWNCOAT

Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:09 PM

Here's my end-all-written-in-stone answer for when i rule the world: (that's sarcasm-i know it doesn't always come through in my typing.)

Anybody wants into America, let them in. Put em in a six week camp where they will learn to speak basic English, begin to learn reading (if they don't already know), tip their waitstaff, locate their family or friends, and undergo a physical to ensure that they are not carrying smallpox or plague, and background checks to ensure they are not known violent felons. Citizenship is awarded at the end of their six weeks. Bus them to the city of their choice, a one-way one-time ticket. Bam. Hundereds of new citizens each day. People needing homes and places to work and shop and recreate. Federal taxes will apply. They are allowed to vote and go to school, all that citizenship jazz we all take for granted. Employers have no reason to pay them lower wages or cash under the table, so we have no reason to fear for our jobs. (the manufacturing and other factory jobs are being shipped to...Mexico, anyways...give it time, we'll all be in Texas trying to go to Mexico for factory work anyhoo!) New immigrants will be able to speak English and write, at least a little bit, so they are less likely to be exploited in a sweatshop or in the red-light districts. My view is that most Mexican immigrants are coming here to work. Are we so threatened by that? Anti-Irish and anti-Chinese movements caused riots and injust laws at their own points in time, when Irish and Chinese were coming here in masses. Mexicans are just the new kids on the block. And having worked side by side with Mexican immigrants (or maybe illegals, i dunno) for years in restaurants, i know firsthand that they work hard. Restaurant work is hard stuff, and most of the guys i knew had two jobs. They work hard, go home, pay taxes, maybe have a beer or smoke a j. Just like the rest of us. What's the problem?

That's just my way of thinking.

Oh, i am a tweaked one, yes i am...

RUE

Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:27 PM

Hey Soupcatcher,

The thing I was thinking about is not that there are 'so many' Mexicans in the US, but that they are allowed to vote in Mexican elections. I haven't thought it through as to what kind of vote motivations that might inspire, but I think it could put a spin on the voting.

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hey Soupcatcher,

The thing I was thinking about is not that there are 'so many' Mexicans in the US, but that they are allowed to vote in Mexican elections. I haven't thought it through as to what kind of vote motivations that might inspire, but I think it could put a spin on the voting.

Hey Rue,

Yeah. I don't know quite what to do about the voting. On one hand I think if you plan on living in a country and raising your kids there you shouldn't be voting in the country you came from. On the other hand, if you can't vote in the country you live in and raise your kids in, at least you can vote somewhere.

GEEZER

Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
We could absorb the entire population of Mexico and the entire foreign born population of the United States would be a third of the total population.

But what about China? They could ship three or four hundred million potential voters over here and not even miss them. Elect a bunch of commissars and proceed to amend the constitution out of existence and put us all on a diet of fishheads and rice while they ship our SUVs and plasma TVs to Beijing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
But what about China? They could ship three or four hundred million potential voters over here and not even miss them. Elect a bunch of commissars and proceed to amend the constitution out of existence and put us all on a diet of fishheads and rice while they ship our SUVs and plasma TVs to Beijing.

The operative word here being ship.

SERGEANTX

Friday, July 14, 2006 2:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
In your opinion, what do you think these selfish motives are?

Not that you have such motives, but I hear this sort of reasoning frequently from people who are also willing to admit that mostly they're worried about someone 'taking their job', or milking our welfare systems.

Whatever. Jobs aren't some limited resource. A job isn't something you own, it's something you do. No one 'takes' a job from someone else simply because they start working too.

Quote:

In my neck of the woods, finding any type of housing is becoming increasingly difficult. Lower cost or affordable housing is almost non-existant. I guess you could 'suggest' certain areas of the Country where immigrants could settle based on socio-economic factors.

I believe it's still legal to build more houses.

Quote:

Quote:

My guess is that today's immigrants would have an easier time of than they did 90 years ago.

Unfortunately a number of immigrants come to America because they are trying to escape the low standard of living in their Countries of origin. I'm not against immigration at all. I just think it should be somewhat controlled to ensure the newcomers both pay into the 'system' as well as reap the benefits of the 'system'.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'system'. The vast majority of our immigrants have come here looking for opportunity, usually to escape a serious lack of it in their previous homes. It's part of what makes them motivated, hard working taxpayers.

If there's something about the 'system' that will break because people come here looking for freedom and opportunity, then there's something wrong with the 'system', not with the immigrants.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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