Missing reviews...

POSTED BY: Leiasky
UPDATED: Monday, July 10, 2006 20:23
VIEWED: 20099
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TKID

Sunday, July 9, 2006 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reenie:
Therefore, if EVER in doubt of crossing a line in which even innocent remarks could be misunderstood...then, don't cross the line.

I have to disagree again. Nothing would be said to anyone if ones remarks even remotely may be misunderstood.

And sometimes, once the initial hurt wears off, a dialogue ensues that is enlightening, and even fun to have/read.

MORDSITH

Sunday, July 9, 2006 2:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reenie:
I completely understand the distinction the last few posts have tried to make between constructive criticism and flaming. I'm not disagreeing with this.

The point I was trying to make, and may not have done so that well, is that how much criticism an author can take before he/she feels attacked is variable. Therefore, if EVER in doubt of crossing a line in which even innocent remarks could be misunderstood...then, don't cross the line. Said another way, it isn't what you say so much as how it's said.

I was simply trying to offer that it's the responsiblity of those leaving comments to uphold a minimum standard of kindness and tact. If you ever, even once, leave a comment that gets YOU a negative reaction in return...perhaps take that a sign to not comment like that again. It may be something you as an author would find acceptable, but clearly not everyone does.

Call it flaming or cronstructive reviewing or anything in between...if it hurts or offends someone, stop. If it even might, don't do it. Find another way to express yourself.

That's all I'm sayin'.

I write non fan fic realted stuff and post it at a website called writing.com and I have recieved a LOT of constructive criticism. And I have always welcomed it. Becuase while people here say, 'I don't like this or that' often that is all they will say and all the author gets is I don't like your story, and that can put a person off.

At this other website though I would get an email from a fellow writer who would say something like, this piece was good, I thought you could use work in this part here. Have you are tried doing this? Or if you want to try and go for that reaction, why not try this? I've gotten a whole story with mark ups and comments back from multipul reviewers. They offer encouragement and support as well as help because they understand how nerve wracking it can be to post your work. They don't sugar coat, but they don't make you feel like an idiot when you post something either.

I have never recieved a comment like that from this site.

But you know what? You aren't gonna please everyone when you write, no matter what you do, someone is not going to like it. Lieasky will probably never love my writing (at least not my Jaylee, lol ;D), which is fine, she doesn't has to.

Just like I will probably never read a Rayne story because thinking about River in an emotionally mature realtionship with anyone is completely out of character in my opinion. But that is fine. Since I don't think Rayne could EVER be in character, I don't go and read the fic and then tell the writer I thought it was out of character. I either have to suspend my personal opinion on the 'ship, or I just don't read it. It would be silly to go to all the different Rayne writers and tell them how I don't agree with River being able to act like this or that.

I guess I don't even know what my point is with this whole post lol. Just read what you like. If you have something you think could TRULY help the writer, let them know. But also let them know what you did enjoy, put them at ease so they feel comfortable talking with you. That is what is really going to help them, otherwise they are going to be standoffish to you and your comments will just be recieved negatively and will serve no purpose but to upset someone. And then what was the point in commenting in the first place?

Okay, I should stop rambling now.

LEIASKY

Sunday, July 9, 2006 4:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tkid:
Quote:
Originally posted by Reenie:
Therefore, if EVER in doubt of crossing a line in which even innocent remarks could be misunderstood...then, don't cross the line.

I have to disagree again. Nothing would be said to anyone if ones remarks even remotely may be misunderstood.

And sometimes, once the initial hurt wears off, a dialogue ensues that is enlightening, and even fun to have/read.

Tkid, where did you come from and why haven't you posted earlier!? laugh

Damn, you've managed to say far more politely, than I ever could have. This is exactly the same way I feel.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

LEIASKY

Sunday, July 9, 2006 5:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mordsith:

Lieasky will probably never love my writing (at least not my Jaylee, lol ;D), which is fine, she doesn't has to.

On the contrary. I actually like your writing a lot. I think I've even commented to that effect. And since you brought this up, I will comment on this specifically. If I felt your Jaylee was in character, I'd probably be able to accept that pairing in those stories you write as well - and would leave a review stating that.

I certainly won't colorcoat a review, if I read something (not necessarily written by you M - by anyone!) and felt that it was lacking or something was wrong. Of course it doesn't mean the author has to agree, but just as you (general you here, not just Mordsith) have taken the time to write, I, and everyone else, has taken the time to read.

I do my best to leave constructive reviews. I don't flame, call people names, but I DO give my opinion.

Quote:
If you have something you think could TRULY help the writer, let them know. But also let them know what you did enjoy, put them at ease so they feel comfortable talking with you. That is what is really going to help them, otherwise they are going to be standoffish to you and your comments will just be recieved negatively and will serve no purpose but to upset someone. And then what was the point in commenting in the first place?

But truly, does anyone know what will 'help' a writer? Different comments help different people. Just general comments help me, give me ideas, might make me take another look at how I wrote a specific character if someone doesn't agree with how I portrayed them. I want to hear these things. I want people to be honest. Otherwise, how else is one going to get better?

Some, and I'm learning slowly, just want positive reviews and don't want to hear anything negative. Some consider reviewers telling them someone is out of character to be a flame, when I don't think it is. Would just make me take another look at how I wrote that specific person/s.

*shrug*

Now I'm rambling. Time to go back to writing.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

SLOWBROWNCOAT

Sunday, July 9, 2006 7:36 PM

Okay, so Anon is gone and I had to de-lurk and get a user-ID to get in on this! I hope that no one flames me for what I’m about to say, lol, especially since this is my first post as an online-person. So, I’m an avid reader of fanfic (but not a writer) who has commented anonymously a number of times and has about as big an obsession in reading the comments as the fic (hmm, what does that say about me?). I wonder if it helps to understand that there are nuances to comments and characterizations that should be considered here. For example, I might read a fic that I think has wonderful characterizations and yet someone else thinks they are off (maybe even way off). It is true that writers/fanfics differ in terms of the characterizations, but it is also true that commenters differ in how they see the characters. I have sometimes wondered if the commenter has considered whether or not they actually see the characters accurately (assuming there is some objective criteria to view the characters, which I don’t believe there is, but I digress). As TKID indicated above (don’t know how to do the quote thingy!), the statement “I don’t think Early would act that way” is not inflammatory and is an appropriate way to respond. However, saying “This is not how Early would act” indicates that the commenter is the sole judge of how Early would act and there are no other ways for him to be interpreted. Or again, it lacks an acknowledgement that the commenter may actually be incorrect on the characterization. Perhaps it isn’t inflammatory, but it indicates a bit of a lack of self-realization, and if the commenter keeps doing that, (and I’ve actually begun to notice commenters who routinely do that in fics) I could see how an author would get defensive about it.

I’ve noticed that certain types of fics tend to get negative comments whether or not they were “good” fics with what I considered good characterizations. Sometimes those negative comments were constructive, sometimes not, occasionally they were very negative and I wondered if someone was just having a bad day or had a stick up their pi gu (my first use of Chinese!). Often these fics are those that simply do something the reader didn’t agree with (slash, non-canon pairings, character death) and I have to consider that their evaluation of the fic was clouded by their dislike of the topic/plot/pairing. Sometimes I think we are taking this WAY too seriously. I mean it is meant to be fun and entertaining. I’m not sure how it has ended up such a grudge match. As a somewhat new person to the verse, I’m sad to say it’s kinda turning me off it.

And in response to Mordsith, I remember the comment about someone wanting to spit on you simply for writing a pairing that they didn’t like! I was appalled at that, I never considered that Browncoats would be that way. I just went back to look for it, so I wouldn’t say anything out of turn, and I noticed that it wasn’t an Anon comment (so maybe that doesn’t support the notion that getting rid of anon commenting will cut down on flaming, but…). I also saw that you replyed to it, as did others and you certainly had the right to defend yourself there (I thought your response was kinda funny as well as insightful!). I guess I can see how a commenter would feel like they were being flamed for getting a response to their comment (kinda in response to Leiasky’s post above, but since I don’t really know the circumstances there it might not be appropriate). However, if fanfic is fair game for any type of comments, then so are the comments fair game to responses.

Okay, I’ve been way too long-winded, especially for a first post. I think I’ll go back to lurking for a while. *please don’t hurt me too badly, I can’t take negative comments, LOL*

SAMEERTIA

Sunday, July 9, 2006 7:51 PM

Thanks for delurking SlowBrownCoat!

I agree that we need to leave the fanfiction reviews open for anyone to post in, but it would be nice if authors had control over being able to delete flaming reviews, or if we had a moderator who we could contact.

I've been very fortunate not to have been the recipient of negative reviews on this site, even on my Simon/Mal story. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, non-slashers!

And usually, I can take the flames, toast marshmallows over them, and make lovely s'mores for all of my happy readers.

However, it can really tear a person down to recieve viscious replies, and sometimes I've seen it escalate into personal attacks on the authors.
Some samples that I've revieved from other boards= (keep in mind that I write LOTR based erotica)
- "Get a life, Nobody wants to read this crap."
-"If you want to bastardize something maybe you should start with your own offspring." (I actually liked that one. I quote it often!)
-"This was stupid. Why do you bother?"

I LOVE a constructive criticism review! "I thought these parts were good, but this part wasn't so good. Maybe you could... *make suggestions here*". But nastiness can really tear down an author, make them lose faith in their story-telling.

I don't mind anonymous reviewers, Often that means we have shiny visitors from other sites on the web come to visit li'l old us. I'd hate to see them have to go through the mess of registering just to leave a review.

MORDSITH

Sunday, July 9, 2006 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slowbrowncoat:
Okay, so Anon is gone and I had to de-lurk and get a user-ID to get in on this! I hope that no one flames me for what I’m about to say, lol, especially since this is my first post as an online-person. So, I’m an avid reader of fanfic (but not a writer) who has commented anonymously a number of times and has about as big an obsession in reading the comments as the fic (hmm, what does that say about me?). I wonder if it helps to understand that there are nuances to comments and characterizations that should be considered here. For example, I might read a fic that I think has wonderful characterizations and yet someone else thinks they are off (maybe even way off). It is true that writers/fanfics differ in terms of the characterizations, but it is also true that commenters differ in how they see the characters. I have sometimes wondered if the commenter has considered whether or not they actually see the characters accurately (assuming there is some objective criteria to view the characters, which I don’t believe there is, but I digress). As TKID indicated above (don’t know how to do the quote thingy!), the statement “I don’t think Early would act that way” is not inflammatory and is an appropriate way to respond. However, saying “This is not how Early would act” indicates that the commenter is the sole judge of how Early would act and there are no other ways for him to be interpreted. Or again, it lacks an acknowledgement that the commenter may actually be incorrect on the characterization. Perhaps it isn’t inflammatory, but it indicates a bit of a lack of self-realization, and if the commenter keeps doing that, (and I’ve actually begun to notice commenters who routinely do that in fics) I could see how an author would get defensive about it.

I’ve noticed that certain types of fics tend to get negative comments whether or not they were “good” fics with what I considered good characterizations. Sometimes those negative comments were constructive, sometimes not, occasionally they were very negative and I wondered if someone was just having a bad day or had a stick up their pi gu (my first use of Chinese!). Often these fics are those that simply do something the reader didn’t agree with (slash, non-canon pairings, character death) and I have to consider that their evaluation of the fic was clouded by their dislike of the topic/plot/pairing. Sometimes I think we are taking this WAY too seriously. I mean it is meant to be fun and entertaining. I’m not sure how it has ended up such a grudge match. As a somewhat new person to the verse, I’m sad to say it’s kinda turning me off it.

And in response to Mordsith, I remember the comment about someone wanting to spit on you simply for writing a pairing that they didn’t like! I was appalled at that, I never considered that Browncoats would be that way. I just went back to look for it, so I wouldn’t say anything out of turn, and I noticed that it wasn’t an Anon comment (so maybe that doesn’t support the notion that getting rid of anon commenting will cut down on flaming, but…). I also saw that you replyed to it, as did others and you certainly had the right to defend yourself there (I thought your response was kinda funny as well as insightful!). I guess I can see how a commenter would feel like they were being flamed for getting a response to their comment (kinda in response to Leiasky’s post above, but since I don’t really know the circumstances there it might not be appropriate). However, if fanfic is fair game for any type of comments, then so are the comments fair game to responses.

Okay, I’ve been way too long-winded, especially for a first post. I think I’ll go back to lurking for a while. *please don’t hurt me too badly, I can’t take negative comments, LOL*

Very insightful little post. No that comment wasn't annon, but I was just trying to give an example of a flame. After I got that post I didn't know what to think. I couldn't understand why someone would say that to another person

MORDSITH

Sunday, July 9, 2006 10:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Thanks for delurking SlowBrownCoat!

I agree that we need to leave the fanfiction reviews open for anyone to post in, but it would be nice if authors had control over being able to delete flaming reviews, or if we had a moderator who we could contact.

I've been very fortunate not to have been the recipient of negative reviews on this site, even on my Simon/Mal story. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, non-slashers!

And usually, I can take the flames, toast marshmallows over them, and make lovely s'mores for all of my happy readers.

However, it can really tear a person down to recieve viscious replies, and sometimes I've seen it escalate into personal attacks on the authors.
Some samples that I've revieved from other boards= (keep in mind that I write LOTR based erotica)
- "Get a life, Nobody wants to read this crap."
-"If you want to bastardize something maybe you should start with your own offspring." (I actually liked that one. I quote it often!)
-"This was stupid. Why do you bother?"

I LOVE a constructive criticism review! "I thought these parts were good, but this part wasn't so good. Maybe you could... *make suggestions here*". But nastiness can really tear down an author, make them lose faith in their story-telling.

I don't mind anonymous reviewers, Often that means we have shiny visitors from other sites on the web come to visit li'l old us. I'd hate to see them have to go through the mess of registering just to leave a review.

eeep! those are some pretty interesting review!

I agree, some annoymous reviews make my day and shiny and nice. I will miss that.

PHOENIXROSE

Monday, July 10, 2006 10:37 AM

I'm also lucky in that I haven't gotten any nasty comments, though I did have someone rating my banners down to 5 last week. They did it while signed in, so I do know who it was, and they have basically never posted on the forum, and they haven't responded to my inquiry as to what exactly they have against me. Don't know if they just didn't know that when you rate something is when a message is sent...
Anyway, yeah SlowBrownCoat, it shouldn't be a grudge match, I agree. Sadly, there will always be people who will use the net to fight with people who are unlikely to be able to punch them in the nose. Please don't let this turn you off to what is generally a very shiny community!

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TKID

Monday, July 10, 2006 1:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slowbrowncoat:
So, I’m an avid reader of fanfic (but not a writer) who has commented anonymously a number of times and has about as big an obsession in reading the comments as the fic (hmm, what does that say about me?).

Me too! I love reading the comments. I particularly like comment threads where someone disagrees/dislikes something and a thread starts up where everyone weighs in with their varying opinions.

As to what you had to say about the type of comments, I think it goes without question that any one comment is just one person's point of view, and others may disagree. Just because I might think my point of view is gospel does not make my point of view the absolute truth.

And if the author replies back and says 'I believe you simply don't like seeing Early in a dress,' this is also cool. Even better is the author saying why they want Early in a dress, and what they were hoping this would do to/for the story.

If, instead of disagreeing with a comment in private via email, folks stated their differing opinion in another comment, most of the reasons for allowing anonymous comments would disappear.

Mod deletion of flames I have no problem with.

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