What are your thoughts on god?

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
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KANEMAN

Friday, July 7, 2006 1:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Piz:
Religion (mysticism of any kind, really) in any and every form is incorrect and invalid. That's simply fact.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

*thwack*... That noise is the hammer hitting the nail on the head

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, July 7, 2006 3:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Piz:
Religion (mysticism of any kind, really) in any and every form is incorrect and invalid. That's simply fact.

I would love for you to elaborate on that.

When someone tells me something is fact, as opposed to opinion, inference or personal belief, I want something to back it up.

What do you base that on?

PIZ

Friday, July 7, 2006 4:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I would love for you to elaborate on that.

When someone tells me something is fact, as opposed to opinion, inference or personal belief, I want something to back it up.

What do you base that on?

I base that on the fact that there's not a shred of evidence for any of it. But that doesn't even matter. It's up to the one asserting a positive to prove the assertion. I'm only stating that something's not there. There's no need to show evidence that something doesn't exist - those who say something does exist have to show the evidence.

What's being asked here is the same as someone claiming that there's a little, invisible, Jayne's-hat-wearin' platypus living on his shoulder, then daring me to "prove" he's wrong. An assertion isn't evidence (one can assert anything, as this example shows), therefore he's established nothing to disprove, so there's no need to disprove it. Others claim that "God" exists, but like our platypus that assertion establishes nothing that needs to be disproved. It's up to those claiming that something does exist to prove their claim, by providing evidence to show that it is, in fact, there.

There have been many arguments given for the existence of "God." However every such argument has been (a) based on no evidence and (b) long ago shown to be invalid. It's the same for every claim of mystical "stuff" or "action" or "platypi" or whatever. Information about the arguments and their errors is easily obtained, on the internet or in other readily available sources.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

TRAVELER

Friday, July 7, 2006 4:52 AM

You got it Bowie. The genius of God is he made existance imperfect. This produces interaction as the different forms of creation try to continually correct themselves. But they can't. He did a really great job. Atoms bounce around. Galaxies spiral. People argue. It just goes on and on. But never think God does not care. If you care than why not God. He cares so much he gave us our freedom. It is not easy, this thing called freedom. A lot of people have paid a high price for it. But the choice is yours. I'm talking to the person who first started this thread now. Bowie already understands what I'm talking about. By the way Bowie thanks for reminding me. I need to be reminded of this, myself, sometimes. So back to the guy who started this shindig aka thread. You can do good or you can do evil. God won't stand in your way. You have a lot of things influencing you as you mature. Some will be hard and some good. If you say "Why should bad things happen to me?" you are being silly. Bad things happen to everyone. Some worst than others for sure. But that is life. It is not perfect. See above. I know people with loads of money and they waste their lives worring to death about it. I know people who can't put two nickles together and still share what they have with others. If you want to see a miracle go to the blood bank and give your share. Dish out food at soup kitchen. There are plenty of miracles to be performed. God does not work alone. He likes it if you join him. I have seen people do the simplest things and receive the greatest rewards. God doesn't make medals or plant your picture on the front page of the Journal, he gives a feeling inside that no one can take from you.
If you want that feeling, than volunteer. You don't have to join a religion to give blood. I have served coffee at a club I belonged to that helped Alcoholics Anonymous. I got more hugs than you could ever count. The smiles on those people faces, knowing there was a safe place to go to keep sober, will last me a lifetime. So just do it and the rest will follow. So you wanted some thoughts about God. Well these are mine. He's good. He wants the best for you. And He has given you the gift of freedom to find your path.

ZZETTA13

Friday, July 7, 2006 11:18 AM

Is there going to be a tomorrow or a next thursday ? Prove it.

Z

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, July 7, 2006 3:22 PM

Quote:
I'm only stating that something's not there. There's no need to show evidence that something doesn't exist

You don't exist. That is simple fact. There's no need to show evidence for that, it is simply true.

After all there isn't a shred of evidence that you do exist, the words I've seen here could have been typed by anyone, it happens all the time.

ZZETTA13, for example, might have joined twice so he/she could have a second voice, and then come into this thread under the guise of PIZ to say something easily disprovable so he/she could then rush in and say, "Is there going to be a tomorrow or a next thursday ? Prove it."

I've seen it done before.

-

However I generally find it easier to take some things on the assertions, if someone comes to a board I assume, unless I have reason otherwise, that they are a distinct person and not just a second account. If people post pictures that they say are of themselves I take them at their word.

Why? Because in this world the burden of evidence (though not proof) is always on the naysayer.

If I say, "I have a pet cat," I don't have to back it up, I never have to back it up. You know why that is? Because it is impossible to prove it is true. Even if I take you to my house and show you my cat you don't really know that I'm telling the truth. How do you know the person who you met is me? You only have the assertion of that person and myself, you don't know the house is mine, even if I show you the deed it could be forged, and you don't know that the cat in it really is my pet.

But I do have a cat, and a dog, and a gecko. I can not prove they exist because that is impossible, I could show you pictures of them, I could show you pictures of me with them, if you are in the area I could even let you touch them. I can't prove that my pet cat exists.

How many people here believe that a cat named Hannah, a dog named Cindy, and a gecko that doesn't have a name really exist as pets in my house? I offer no proof, I can offer no proof.

I certainly hope most do. But if I say, "there's a little, invisible, Jayne's-hat-wearin' platypus living on my shoulder," those very same people will not believe me. And the reason is not that there isn't a shred of evidence for it because there isn't a shred of evidence for my cat, or for my own existance for that matter.

The reason is that there is evidence AGAINST it. Actually there is proof against it, for something to be a platypus or a Jayne hat it needs to have certain physical properties, those properties make them visible. Thus there can not be an invisible, Jayne's-hat-wearin' platypus anywhere in existance, which is where I assert that my shoulder is.

What if I said there was a live natural dinosaur in my garage, and offered the same evidence I offer that my cat exists, that being none? Well people still won't believe it because there is evidence against that. Not proof, never proof, but evidence. Dinosaurs are living things, they don't appear out of nowhere and since I said natural it needs to decend from something, it would have parrents and grandparrents. For it to be alive now it would need to have a considerable population surviving down through the ages, not evolving, but eating and breeding.

That would leave bones and such, a fossil record 65 million years long.

While it is possible that that does exist the fact that it has not been even hinted at makes it unlikely, the statistics add to the evidence against the dinosaur.

If I just said a live dinosaur, not a natural one, then you take into the account that there's plenty of reason to believe I am not capable of creating one or getting one from someone who is, because such a person either does not exist or would not do buisness with me.

Of course it is possible that I have one, but the evidence is stacked agaisnt that, and it is only after that evidence comes into play that the burden of proof falls on the one making the assertion.

Unless you're telling me that every time

PIZ

Friday, July 7, 2006 3:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
You don't exist. That is simple fact. There's no need to show evidence for that, it is simply true.
(snip)

Sorry, but it seems that your understanding of basic logic is flawed. I'm afraid that there's almost nothing correct in any of your arguments.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, July 7, 2006 3:53 PM

Because you deliberately made a statement you knew was going to offend any and everyone in this thread. Which I can only assume you did to gain attention. As for your assertion that you hadn't inteded to say anything else on the subject - BUit. You knew it would incite response and I am sure you had your answers ready and waiting.

As for your original statement, it was probably one of the dumbest things I have seen on this forum and there have been some doozies.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, July 7, 2006 3:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Piz:
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
You don't exist. That is simple fact. There's no need to show evidence for that, it is simply true.
(snip)
Sorry, but it seems that your understanding of basic logic is flawed. I'm afraid that there's almost nothing correct in any of your arguments.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

and now you are being deliberately obtuse Piz. It is easy to pick the first line of a response and find issue - keep reading, what chris is saying is valid.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, July 7, 2006 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Piz:
Sorry, but it seems that your understanding of basic logic is flawed. I'm afraid that there's almost nothing correct in any of your arguments.

Then say it in symbolic logic becasue what I thought you said was that because of a total lack of evidence supporting religion or mysticism those things were invalid.

Evidence, E, supporting religion, R, or mysticism, M, is written, in logic, as follows:
E -> R\/M

If there's not a shred of evidence for religion or mysticis that is writen, in logic, like this:
-E

I thought your argument said that religion was invalid and incorrect, -R, and mysticism of any kind was likewise incorrect and invalid, -M.

When asked why you said it was because there is not a shred of evidence, that means you said
-R/\-M
because
-E
where
E-> R\/M

in other words
E-> R\/M
-E
Thus:
-R/\-M

Well that's got more than one problem with it, but at the heart it is a very simple thing, you're argument is based on denying the anticedent, a logical fallacy.

If that is not your argument why not tell us what your argument is? For something to be fact it needs to be backed up by more than just, "Because I said so," or, "The other guy doesn't have proof either."

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