Discrepancies b.w Pilot and Movie

POSTED BY: Petaline
UPDATED: Thursday, August 17, 2006 22:26
VIEWED: 12838
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PETALINE

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:37 PM

Ok, maybe I'm missing something but isn't there a HUGE discrepancy between Simon's story of getting River out of the academy and what we see in the movie?

In the movie, Simon goes in there and gets her himself and takes her out completely conscious and all. They get on a ship and go.

But in Serenity (the pilot), Simon says some underground men got her out and she woke up in cryo. Even if Simon somehow sedated her and put her out and into cryo after the breakout, he said that he didn't get her out himself.

Was this an attempt by Joss to make Simon seem less of wuss? I mean Simon gets decked by someone in like every other episode but why would Joss have made this glaring plothole?

Please lemme know what y'all think about this.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

ECGORDON

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:46 PM

Joss had to streamline the story for a movie audience who had never heard of Firefly much less seen any of the series. Besides, Simon didn't necessarily tell Mal and crew the entire story in the pilot episode. Why would he incriminate himself by telling them of his direct involvement in the rescue when he had just met them and didn't know if they could be trusted?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:57 PM

There is a discrepancy of sorts yes. For reasons already mentioned. The currently accepted explanation is that Simon lied about the extent of his involvement in the rescue for whatever reason. Personally I don't buy it but I also don't see the difference being a big deal.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

THEONETRUEBIX

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:36 PM

Note also that in the series, you DO see Simon being active and daring -- as long as it involves protecting his sister. And that's precisely what's going on when he rescues her.

There's no question that initially, this entire thing was Joss outright contradicting the story told by Simon in the series. He's admitted as much. But he's also admitted to siding with the fanwank of "Simon withheld part of the story from the crew in the pilot" thereby bringing it all back into compliance and continuity.

(In other words, "Simon lied" is not merely fanwank community canon, it's official canon, at least if you consider Joss' opinion official canon.)

BOBECC

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:44 AM

It's also kind of weird how in Jaynestown Simon is pretty much a bumbling idiot with no acting or lying ability, yet in Serenity he confidently strolls into a secure alliance facility and pulls it off flawlessly.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 4:48 AM

There's quite a bit of discussion about this in headlines discussion. Don't know why it was started there, but anyway here it is; http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=7&t=20542
It makes a certain sense, even more sense if you read the novel of the movie. But yeah, it was a bit of a discrepancy. Had to introduce the characters and story to people who hadn't watched the show!

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THEONETRUEBIX

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 5:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bobecc:
It's also kind of weird how in Jaynestown Simon is pretty much a bumbling idiot with no acting or lying ability, yet in Serenity he confidently strolls into a secure alliance facility and pulls it off flawlessly.

In just about any thread on this, you'll see the communal consensus on this, and it's actually right there in your comment: When dealing with Core World culture, Simon is fine. When out of that culture, he isn't.

ONTHEDRIFT

Thursday, July 6, 2006 5:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by theonetruebix:
Note also that in the series, you DO see Simon being active and daring -- as long as it involves protecting his sister. And that's precisely what's going on when he rescues her.

There's no question that initially, this entire thing was Joss outright contradicting the story told by Simon in the series. He's admitted as much. But he's also admitted to siding with the fanwank of "Simon withheld part of the story from the crew in the pilot" thereby bringing it all back into compliance and continuity.

(In other words, "Simon lied" is not merely fanwank community canon, it's official canon, at least if you consider Joss' opinion official canon.)

Sounds good, I won't question it.

And as far as Simon being "bumbling", you're exactly right theonetruebix, everything changes when River is involved. I am the definition of average, but if you

with one of my siblings in such a heinous way, I would do ANYTHING. ANYTHING. I would find myself capable of much more than I ever imagined. When you're fueled by love and the pure desire to protect and heal your family, what couldn't you do. Unconditional, beyond reason love - that's why the Simon/River relationship dynamic is my favorite. It's love at the best and true meaning of the word.

And since I've already hijacked the thread somewhat, Thanks theonetruebix for all your hard work. It's inspiring and much appreciated. Thank you!

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, July 6, 2006 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by onthedrift:

And as far as Simon being "bumbling", you're exactly right theonetruebix, everything changes when River is involved.

Not so much. Simon although is very protective of his sister, and will go to great lengths to do so (ie jumping on Dobson from above), he is still very clumsy.

The only place in which Simon has been smooth is Ariel in the hospital. A place in which he is professionally trained and would feel at home in as it is his job and he spent many years of his life at. So, duh.

The problem I find with this whole discussion is that people start with the assumption that everything is consistent and search for explinations that support this. The argument then becomes circular and thus fallacious in nature.

If one goes cronologically from the BDS to the BDM, then resolving the problems in that arise in the movie are impossible.

For example, I've read from some people here that they think Ariel is proof that Simon knew that River was psychic (something he knew in the movie from the rescue, but denied in the series in Objects in Space, the last ep).

The problem with using Ariel in this way is that the scene involved is when River was running away from the Blue Hands Men. Well Simon had two choices given that they were bacially in a hallway. Namely, run toward the really scary screaming like people were getting tortured and dieing, or the other way. Personally, I think that one doesn't have to think someone is psychic to follow them when they are running the other way. Especially, when that other person started running first.

This is simply a case of over analysis and taking things out of context.

I really don't understand why these inconsistencies are a problem for people that absolutely need to be resolved.

Simply put, Joss started the series with the characters pointed in a certain direction. FOX told him to change this from what was in the unaired pilot to something else, which was the pilot that we actually saw. Then canon was set during the series.

When Joss wrote the BDM, he decided to bring back a lot of what was tossed out (ie Mal) by FOX in the movie and rewrite history a bit. It's his prerogative. Some will like, some won't. But let's not deny it happened and its consequences. That's just delusional.

EDIT: Btw, this has been discussed to death before. Search the archives. Use google and tag on site:fireflyfans.net to only search fireflyfans.net.

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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

PETALINE

Saturday, July 8, 2006 1:22 AM

Sorry to have caused such an uproar. I asked this question on here because I personally couldn't find an answer and I thought everyone here would be helpful. However, I just got talked down to as if I should know everything Joss Whedon has ever said or thought. Thanks so much for your help and reminding me why I never post on forums. I was new here and was looking for some help and thought this would be the place to find it. I guess I was wrong. Excuse me for being curious.

Won't happen again, sir.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

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