Question re: the intent of the US government

POSTED BY: Amiton
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 5, 2006 02:43
VIEWED: 3812
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PIRATEJENNY

Sunday, July 2, 2006 1:47 AM

I do think that that Bush and his administration based on everything they've done and have been planning do have malicious intent toward the American public.

RUE

Sunday, July 2, 2006 4:06 AM

I was just referencing the magnitude of the lies. Iraq - WMD, imminent threat, mushroom cloud. FEMA - no one could have known, heckuva job.

PDCHARLES

Sunday, July 2, 2006 1:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I was just referencing the magnitude of the lies. Iraq - WMD, imminent threat, mushroom cloud. FEMA - no one could have known, heckuva job.

Understood...

It just triggered something in my cobweb. If only we could disguise environmental scientists as macro-economists.

SOUPCATCHER

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 8:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Soupcatcher,

I would add one thing to your analysis. George Bush has a strong desire to make his mark on history. He wants to be remembered as one of the greats. I think this desire drives a lot of his foreign policy.

Excellent point, Veteran. I guess we've all learned, from the past many years, who he considers as "the greats". I'm pretty sure Bush and I have diametrically opposed views of what makes a leader great.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 4:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I guess we've all learned, from the past many years, who he considers as "the greats".

The Tellytubbies (on coke)?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

SOUPCATCHER

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 4:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
The Tellytubbies (on coke)?

*snort*

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 6:36 PM

I somewhat agree with HKCavalier - that people want to think of themselves as good, and nobody but crazy people think of themselves as evil.

But I also agree with Rue, that some people in positions of power knowingly do hurful things and don't care...

to a point. But there's still justifications to be made. They can be as simple as thinking
'if I weren't doing it somebody else would be
- if I weren't raping the rain forests, or allowing american companies to do so, then some foreign industry wo8uld get the jump, etc., and that would be worse. If I make some of the money off the operation, I will at least use that for good.'

Or 'i'm just trying to provide the best life I can for my family.'

and then there's that elite mentality of some rich people, that doesn't really see the poor as people, and therefore actions hurting the poor aren't particularly evil.

The eradication of the poor in a city might even be a good thing with the right justification - 'the city was beyond decadence, beyond help - etc. Now we can actually rebuild it.'

When no earthly rational really fits, then the biblical ones can apply - "sodam gomorrha," etc.

For that matter, this mentality believes that the masses really cannot govern themselves, and that our state would fail if the smart and powerful didn't manipulate them. They don't really believe in democracy, but must believe that the ruse of democracy is either a useful tool, or an unfortunate inconvenience that must be entertained.

Under their thumb, they may even think the masses are better off, in some abstact notion of inevitable anarchy without the powers that be keeping the status quo.

I'm sure they've all lied themselves into believing their own bullshit...that's what makes them so effective. (With the exception of Bush. I think Bush truly believes whatever they tell him he should believe- it's not a lie becuase he doesn't have to do any double think on his own. that would make him amazingly convincing if he understood the things he was saying).

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 12:46 AM

Righteous- No matter which attribute you care to measure, people fall on a curve. That goes for height, weight, IQ, metabolic rate, and even "morality". As hard as it is to envision, there ARE some people that have no identification or sympathy with others. No remorse touches their dealings. They don't think of themsevels as good OR evil because they think ONLY of themselves. They're called sociopaths, and while some people are trained into it by abuse, others are just born that way. SO when you generalize about the nature of those in power, just remember that it is a somewhat self-selected group and that the selection process seems to favor those on the far end of "morality" the bell curve. (Or as a previous posted said, anyone who wants to be President shouldn't be.)

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

AMITON

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 2:43 AM

Quote:
So Amiton,

You got lots of posts - people just expressing opinions, sometimes backing them up with history.

What say you?

Sorry about the delay in responding, Rue. I've been out of town for the weekend. More on that later.

For my own part, I do think that the average politician, including W, want to do good things when they can, and things that make them look great if at all possible, and will in all cases do exactly what they believe that they can get away with that provides the greatest return in self-interest (or a nearby crony that will ultimately provide returns in self-interest).

I don't think that the US is on its current path out of maliciousness as much as poor judgement and preemptive partisanism. Everyone in Washington is on a power play, either for now or building a case for later. Too many snowballs ended up in the same yard this time and people are getting hurt now. There are too many masters that feel that they need to be served *right* now, and all of the dirt doesn't fit under the rug nicely as it usually does, so to speak.

Likewise, I don't think that we're in the Middle East (Afganistan or Iraq) for basic oil issues. We're still playing too nicely with OPEC for that to be realistic in my opinion. And even if it were true in a large regard, I think at best it's about equivilent to making the generalization that the US Civil War was about nothing but slavery.

I'm still in a bit of time crunch right now (I just got home), so I hope that'll do for now. We can debate it more properly later if you'd like.

Amiton.

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