Browncoats that served, of know someone in Iraq right now...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, June 30, 2006 01:29
VIEWED: 4319
PAGE 5 of 5
>>How can I help those over there and those coming back?
Not much beyond sending care packages, and if you don't believe they should be there, trying to yank your representatives chain about gettin em out of there.
As for when they come back - that's not easy, cause a lot of things a soldier does, that a soldier HAS to do, is ugly, ugly business and not easily explained to civvies - unconditional understanding and forgiveness go a long way, but a lot of these guys need to learn to forgive themselves, and deal with what they've been through.. for that, only predictable, comforting, consistant physical and emotional 'safety' will allow them to deal with it in their own time, and mostly time is what it takes, and a 'safe' environment with a minimum of surprises.
>>Frem- your post just makes me wanna cry.
With all due respect, for Dave (the EOD guy) tears are not appropriate.
And no, I did not attend his funeral, that would have been insulting to watch his memorial service given by clergy of a belief he honestly despised for most of his adult life.
His beliefs were rather nordic in fashion, which is pretty understandable, and a belief held to one degree or another by a lot of military folk, although he never got around to dropping that bombshell on his more traditional parents... we used to joke that the Valkyrie that came to claim him would need a mop and bucket, and it's a bittersweet laugh, true, but he went with no regrets, I am sure.
I toasted his ascension to Valhalla privately with a half tumbler of cheap whiskey, as he would have wanted me to.
Oh, and Hero.. you demean yourself further everytime you open your mouth, please stop while you've some small bit of dignity left.
This site needs a usenet-type killfile more every day.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
As for when they come back - that's not easy, cause a lot of things a soldier does, that a soldier HAS to do, is ugly, ugly business and not easily explained to civvies - unconditional understanding and forgiveness go a long way, but a lot of these guys need to learn to forgive themselves, and deal with what they've been through.
I can't agree more. That war changes a man is not only a cliche...its true. I fully support efforts and programs to provide assistance to veterans. In my own practice I have found myself giving veterans what assistance my position as a prosecutor allows me to give. In one example a local fella got killed in Iraq a couple months back and his buddies came in for the funeral (this was in the town next door), afterwards they were at a bar in my City and got into it with some local idiots who took offense to their choice of music (patriotic) and their toasting their comrade. They were arrested and charged with assault (cause they kicked some serious ass). I had them pay the damages to to bar, plead to a minor disorderly conduct, and called it square. Took some crap for it (especially when I made the local fellas take the same deal) but you can't please everybody and sometimes a fella deserves to kick a little ass.
Quote:
I toasted his ascension to Valhalla privately with a half tumbler of cheap whiskey, as he would have wanted me to.
I understand this too. What you describe as a nordic belief is one I think alot of vets share, although they may not even realize it.
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Oh, and Hero.. you demean yourself further everytime you open your mouth, please stop while you've some small bit of dignity left.
Now where would the fun in that be? How could you be so morally superior without someone to piss and moan about? My opinions may be a minority on this board...at least among the active posters (I've gotten some private notes from folk who just lurk whose cause I champion) but without a vocal minority, the majority cannot function properly. Its one of the fundamental ideas that this country was built on. John Stuart Mill I think...have to reread 'On Liberty'...
H
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Quote:Oh silly me, I must of misinterpreted, when you said Liberals are all evil or want to be evil I thought you were saying that Liberals are all evil or want to be evil, where oh where could I have got that idea?
Originally posted by Hero:
Actually what I'm really saying is that "your a liberal which means your opinion is wrong."
If you were'nt so evil you wouldn't have gotten that so wrong.
Liberals, not evil, just wrong. Me I'm conservative and I find that makes me all kinds a right.
Liberals eh, always wrong, like when Liberal movements were the ones fighting for civil rights and the vote for all, not just for the Conservative land owners they were wrong then too huh. Yep Liberals shouldn't have a voice eh Hero, you Conservatives with your direct line to god should just get rid of them, the world would be a much better place.
Hero world, the world where a Liberal is shot on sight, a World Hero can believe in.
I see how it works: all conservatives are evil scum who hate civil rights and want to turn all poor people in to property, slaves if you will: and by that I mean they are wrong.
Like I said, the day you come up with an actual cogent argument is the day Satan will be going to work on a snowplow, talking to you is like talking to PirateNews, both utterly wrong and utterly insane, and more interested in calling the other side evil than actually making sense.
And hey, calling me evil, thats a good one coming from a lawyer, a man who's made it his lifes work to feed of of the misery of others...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Thanks for the blood donation link. The Red Cross manages to snag me every 3-5 months, but I'll up my donations and redirect about half. And HELL YEAH!! to the Browncoat blood drive! GREAT IDEA!
How do we make that happen????
---------------------------------
Hell yeah!
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Actually, Hero, oldenglanddry is right.
And as for you. I have to agree with Citizen, you are beginning to sound like PN.
What you fail to understand is that I support anyones right to free speech. Doesn't mean I have to listen or agree. I also support my right to tell you that what you are saying makes you sound like an ass.
And your "I always win in court" statements bring up an interesting point - ALL the successful attorneys that I know - have WAAAAY too much to do to waste time posting on a site like this. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
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Hm - well, I'm going to be pretty busy until mid-Augustwith training, but after that I'll be free. If you're interested in really planning one - maybe they could bring a mobile center to a convention like Dragon*Con?
I'm sure something could be worked out - PM me if you're really interested in trying to do something. People here seemed pretty cool with donating DVDs to the troops, maybe this is something that might fly.
If you can't do something smart, do something right.
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FMF, you may be looking for a quote from Voltaire..."I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Everyone has the right to speak (in this case) type what they want. I may not like 90% of the posts, but I have the "right" not to have to read them...ignore the idiots, if you will. I find it better that way.
______________________________________
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
That last line about how you seldom lose in court could have come straight out of the PN "I'm a winner" handbook.
Your only saying that to satisfy your gangsta-govt german-knight-of-the-britsh-empire-pedophiling-masters like War Criminal Queen Elizabeth. Get real, nobody talks like PN.Quote:
And by the way, there are political denominations other than just "Liberal". In the U.K "liberal" has a very different meaning to the broad Tar-brush that you are giving it
What? You mean the political distinctions of the word change its definition over both time and distance. Don't let the "Troll Killing Mom" hear that or she'll come after you next. Although I'm glad to see someone else agreeing with the points I made arguing "liberal" interpretations of the word liberal.
H
See, now in England a "Conservative" is a Gin-soaked, Fox-hunting, Public-school Monarchist who almost certainly uses prostitutes and has probably had at least one Gay affair.
If that is your interpretation of being "all kinds of right" well.. good luck to you.
It takes all sorts.
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Iraq War Ends Silently for One American Soldier
by Dexter Filkins
RAMADI, Iraq - A soldier was dead, and it was time for him to go home.
The doors to the little morgue swung open, and six soldiers stepped outside carrying a long black bag zippered at the top.
A wounded soldier on a stretcher was among those saluting Sgt. Terry Michael Lisk, who died in Ramadi.
About 60 soldiers were waiting to say goodbye. They had gathered in the sand outside this morgue at Camp Ramadi, an Army base in Anbar Province, now the most lethal of Iraqi places.
Inside the bag was Sgt. Terry Michael Lisk, 26, of Zion, Ill., killed a few hours before.
In the darkness, the bag was barely visible. A line of blue chemical lights marked the way to the landing strip not far away.
Everyone saluted, even the wounded man on a stretcher. No one said a word.
Sergeant Lisk had been standing near an intersection in downtown Ramadi on Monday morning when a 120-millimeter mortar shell, fired by guerrillas, landed about 30 paces away. The exploding shell flung a chunk of steel into the right side of his chest just beneath his arm. He stopped breathing and died a few minutes later.
The pallbearers lifted Sergeant Lisk into the back of an ambulance, a truck marked by a large red cross, and fell in with the others walking silently behind it as it crept through the sand toward the landing zone. The blue lights showed the way.
From a distance came the sound of a helicopter.
Death comes often to the soldiers and marines who are fighting in Anbar Province, which is roughly the size of Louisiana and is the most intractable region in Iraq. Almost every day, an American soldier is killed somewhere in Anbar — in Ramadi, in Haditha, in Falluja, by a sniper, by a roadside bomb, or as with Sergeant Lisk, by a mortar shell. In the first 27 days of June, 27 soldiers and marines were killed here. In small ways, the military tries to ensure that individual soldiers like Sergeant Lisk are not forgotten in the plenitude of death.
One way is to say goodbye to the body of a fallen comrade as it leaves for the United States. Here in Anbar, American bodies are taken first by helicopter to Camp Anaconda, the big logistical base north of Baghdad, and then on to the United States. Most helicopter traffic in Anbar, for security reasons, takes place at night. Hence the darkness.
In the minutes after the mortar shell exploded, everyone hoped that Sergeant Lisk would live. Although he was not breathing, the medics got to him right away, and the hospital was not far.
"What's his name?" asked Col. Sean MacFarland, the commander of the 4,000-soldier First Brigade.
"Lisk, sir," someone replied.
"If he can be saved, they'll save him," said Colonel MacFarland, who had been only a few yards away in an armored personnel carrier when the mortar shell landed.
About 10 minutes later, the word came.
"He's dead," Colonel MacFarland said.
Whenever a soldier dies, in Iraq or anywhere else, a wave of uneasiness — fear, revulsion, guilt, sadness — ripples through the survivors. It could be felt on Monday, even when the fighting was still going on.
"He was my best friend," Specialist Allan Sammons said, his lower lip shaking. "That's all I can say. I'm kind of shaken up."
Another soldier asked, "You want to take a break?"
Specialist Sammons said, "I'll be fine," his lip still shaking.
Sergeant Lisk's friends and superiors recalled a man who had risen from a hard childhood to become someone whom they counted on for cheer in a grim and uncertain place.
"He was a special kid," Specialist Sammons said. "He came from a broken home. I think he was divorced. I'm worried that it might be hard to find someone."
He said he would write a letter to the family — to whom it was not clear just yet.
Hours later, at the landing zone at Camp Ramadi, the helicopter descended. Without lights, in the darkness, it was just a grayish glow. With its engines still whirring, it lowered its back door.
The six soldiers walked ou
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