Joss and Firefly

POSTED BY: strokingmypeter
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:22
VIEWED: 6266
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STROKINGMYPETER

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:47 AM

First off let me tell everyone that I have never in my life been a fan of Buffy or Angel. I never watched either show while they aired and to be honest I have no interest in watching them. Thus I don't really have any background when it comes to Joss's work. So I have a question regarding Firefly and Joss, personally. Everyone knows that what makes Firefly special is the bond(s) that tie the whole crew of Serenity together and how they trust each other and how they allow that trust to help them stay together and alive. I have been wondering if this is what Joss really feels about humanity and society too? Firefly is his show after all, and when people write things often it comes from their heart and reflects how they also feel about the world. So what I really would like to know is if this is typical of Joss, to express his own feelings and ideas through his work? Did he do it with Buffy and Angel? I love all themes in Firefly and I happen to agree with a lot of them and I think many of the ideas in the series really can be applied to real life. I was just wondering what you guys thought.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

PENGUIN

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:51 AM

If you want to know a little about Joss, listen to his Equality Now speech...

KT

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:11 AM

Shame you have no interest in Buffy or Angel because - yes - it is very much evident on those shows as well.

They got me to love Joss and led me to Firefly. Those shows have amazing relationships, great statements about cultural things (i.e the Buffy episode HUSH was a great example of how talking actually interferes with actual communciation) and of course his trademark humor (and of course rocket launchers which we know he loves!)

The other comment is right too - check out his Equality Now speech.

This is why "Joss is Boss"!

---------
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart."

AERIN

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:18 AM

I think all of Joss's shows are about making a family from the people you love and trust, even if they are a motley assortment. The family/friends theme is also present in Buffy. It's the relationships between the characters that really make the show interesting. There's that same sense of making it through life together. On some level the vampires and demons are just a gimick added to a soap opera, where they represent the ordinary problems that everyone faces. The fmaily theme seems less prevalent in Angel, but I think it's still there.

I imagine it's Joss's way of saying that we need people. I would like to assume that the strong families he builds on film are representative of his own.

Jayne: I once hit a guy in the neck from 500 yards with a bent scope. Don't that count upstairs?
Book: Oh, it'll be taken into consideration.
Jayne: You made that sound kind of ominous.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:43 AM

Interesting post. I myself have never watched Buffy or Angel before. I've seen a couple of episodes, but I could never really get into them. I was already out of highschool when Buffy was on, I think. My brothers watched it, but they were younger and I just assumed they did because of the same reason that all adolescent boys watch anything on the WB. I truly cannot stand that channel. After watching Firefly and loving it, I may give those series another chance from the start (My brother has all of the seasons on DVD that were released). Can't figure out why I didn't watch it other then the fact that it was on WB. I love vampires, leather and beautiful girls. Maybe that rediculous movie put me off too. I had such a crush on Kristy Swanson back then after Maniquinne 2.

I really don't know anything about Joss except that he seems to have quite a following. I can't believe some of the shirts that I've seen saying things like Joss is my new Master. I couldn't see that shirt being worn anywhere except a convention somewhere. Everybody with a voice like Joss's has a following. My personal opinion on that is if you're wearing a shirt saying "Joss is my Master", you're missing the whole point of Firefly. It is about great relationships and making it through really hard times with others you care about (kind of the way it seems a lot of his fans have come together), but more importantly, it's about standing up for what you believe and being an individual... not being manipulated by a larger entity that is trying to meddle and micromanage your life. At least that's my take... who knows. Maybe Joss gets off on the fact that a lot of people seem to consider him Master or God. I'm not judging anybody. I'm happy that he gave me this show, and whatever people need to do to be happy in this tough world is none of my business.

I'm not the type to really get to know too much about anybody. I love music, and I love playing guitar, but I could probably only name one or two guitarist from any band. Sometimes I think I'm afraid that if I read what the creator of things that I love was thinking when they made it, that it will change what it means to me or how it makes me feel. That's the beauty of art... especially great art. Everybody takes something from it that means something to them.

I'm sure if you really wanted to know, all of the information is out there, and I would imagine that this is as good a place as any to find it.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

ZZETTA13

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:49 AM

Good and interesting post.

Like you I have never seen Buffy or Angel. I didn't see FF either when it was on tv. Didn't catch Serenity at the theater. So what in the hell am I doing here?

Like many others I caught the show much later. Wish I'd caught it earlier but the reality is that I didn't.

I still have LUV for the Joss creation though. So I'm here.

Joss and crews writting show that we are all brothers and sisters and one big family.On this earth or out in the verse. But lets not forget the Ying/Yang, good/bad, controlers, hands of blue and all of the other things that are the bad part of our beings.

Joss's creations talk to us and are belivable,not from a outter-world point of view, but from the human one.If it were all Hi-tech and special f/x I don't think this verse would have become the work of art that it has.

I'm going to stop here because I don't want to go overboard and sound to preachy. Just wanted to throw in a couple thoughts.

Z

Just to add a side note. I never see a world without sin.

NOSADSEVEN

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I really don't know anything about Joss except that he seems to have quite a following. I can't believe some of the shirts that I've seen saying things like Joss is my new Master. I couldn't see that shirt being worn anywhere except a convention somewhere. Everybody with a voice like Joss's has a following. My personal opinion on that is if you're wearing a shirt saying "Joss is my Master", you're missing the whole point of Firefly. It is about great relationships and making it through really hard times with others you care about (kind of the way it seems a lot of his fans have come together), but more importantly, it's about standing up for what you believe and being an individual... not being manipulated by a larger entity that is trying to meddle and micromanage your life. At least that's my take... who knows. Maybe Joss gets off on the fact that a lot of people seem to consider him Master or God. I'm not judging anybody. I'm happy that he gave me this show, and whatever people need to do to be happy in this tough world is none of my business.

I think it's worth noting that the "Joss Whedon is my Master Now" t-shirts are a parody of the Star Wars III line when Anakin changes his allegiance. I've always taken it to signify the change of geek allegiance from George Lucas and his trashing of the Star Wars franchise, to Joss on the release of Serenity. (Both movies were originally slated to come out within a month of each other.) It is quite tongue in cheek.

You are right, however, that there are folks who consider Joss as infallable, but that's hardly "being manipulated by a larger entity that is trying to meddle and micromanage your life". :)
It's just people who really connect with his work (often the very aspect you've cited), and trust that they will continue to.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

ZOID

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:14 AM

Dearest 'stroking':

Lest we forget, Joss was one of the main writers on "Roseanne", too. I loved that show before it 'jumped the shark' with Tom Arnold's first appearance. (NB: How does that guy have a career that doesn't require a mop?) The beauty of "Roseanne" was its heart and realism in its depiction of family relationships and interactions.

I've told most of my converts that (one of) the attraction(s) in Firefly for me was that -- even though it's not a comedy -- it is funny as hell. But it's not one-liners and set-ups, per se; rather, it's the kind of humor we all experience in our daily work places and homes. Funny things happen. People say funny, witty, pithy things. That's what makes the show special for me. I think a number of television shows have managed to capture the essence of human drama or that of human comedy.

None have done both so seamlessly, with such aplomb, as Firefly.

For myself, Buffy and Angel were too farcical. For those who have no problem believing that witches, warlocks, vampires and werewolves really do exist --that these are viable vehicles for exploring the human condition -- BtVS and AtS were probably brilliant entertainment. But I ain't put together that way.

On the other hand, I have no problem with science fiction as that vehicle. I expect the human race will have a future, and that this future will someday include an outward expansion into space, without the luxuries apparent in Star Trek: universal prosperity, equality and uniform mental hygiene. ...For those paying attention to "Serenity", Joss even casts such Utopian dreams in a bad light; uniformity can equate to infringement and control, in the wrong hands.

So, a science fiction entertainment filled with realistic human drama, interactions and workaday humor, set in a future as comparable to our own society as we are to the pioneers of the mid- to late-1800's, is a perfect example of what literature should be: a study of the human condition that we can relate to, draw strength from, and learn from.

I feel my life has been enriched and validated by Firefly. It shows us what we share in common as human beings, and shows us that we are all worthy of admiration, even though we are different, even though we are not 'uniform'. We may not live in a Utopia -- the human species may never live in one -- but we are still special, because of our hearts and minds, and our courage in the face of our everyday "Out of Gas" struggles to merely survive. For making me believe that I am not alone in feeling that way, I thank Joss and his kindred spirits at Mutant Enemy, even though Buffy and Angel have never spoken to me in such a deep and meaningful way...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Interesting screen name, btw. Please, never tell us how you came up with it.
_________________________________________________

WASH
"...That sounds like something out of science fiction!"

ZOE
"You live in a spaceship, dear."

WASH
"So?"
from Firefly, "Objects In Space"

AGATSU

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:09 AM

Well, it's easy to call someone your "master" when your most basic views on life are dead on with the ones your "master" is trying to comunicate and promote.
If you were on a plane going down with Joss and only one parachute, he'd insist you take it (and I'd probably have to put it on him by force and push him out. I could take him. ) Lucas would snatch the 'chute out of your hands because he thinks he's much more important than you, and probably try to sell you the crates of SW merchandise that are on the plane before he jumps.

"Master" in this case is used to express the utmost respect for Joss, NOT blind deference.
I guess in the case of the Star Wars Fans, it's also because of the frustration for how Lucas mucked up their beloved universe, while Joss is "keeping it real", apart from being a much more sympathetic human being.
Like it says on the text next to the shirt over at www.thinkgeek.com,

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, three films captured the imagination and obsession of an entire generation. But the holy trilogy has fallen like the old republic and George Lucas no longer holds power over us. But there is a new hope. A new world and set of characters as real and alive as those we remember from our childhood. We have a new target for our obsession. We have a new master now...

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/pvp/77da/

The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=21775#326341
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:30 AM

Wow Zoid, I had no idea that he wrote for Rosanne. That would make sense though... the really odd characters that might fight each other constantly but will rip off somebody's head if they attack one of their own. I love dysfunctionality when it's not self distructive. Say what you want about bad about Rosanne's family, but no matter how dysfunctional they might have been, they had ties that bound them more than any in my family who for the most part can't stand to be around each other. It was a modern day Brady Bunch for a generation of cynics. Fond memories.....

I think you hit something about the unrelatability of Buffy and Angel though. I think that by the time those shows came out I was already in college and a bit more immersed in the "real" world then my younger brothers were. I used to be a huge SiFi fan when I was a kid, but now most of it bores me. There are some great tales out there and Firefly is one of the best (probably my favorite though because I've always said that I wanted to build a rocket and start a tobacco and weed farm on the moon where our real life "Alliance" can't bother me anymore). Anything by Phillip K. Dick that they've turned into a movie is great because it's so scary how so many of his fantastical predictions have come true already via technology. (ie: Total Recall, Paycheck, Minority Report, Imposter) If you've never read anything from him, you're really missing out.

I've never enjoyed Star Trek much, but I kind of like Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. In my opinion it has some of the most human characters of any of the shows, particularly the settlers on smaller planets and moons. It always pissed me off to see how clean everybody in the Federation was with their fancy pants and we're all equal attitude. The sad truth is, we are not all born equal. There are some of us that excell at some things and some that excell at others. There are some of us who excell at many things and there are some who excell, sadly, at nothing. To believe any other way is simply counteractive to Darwins theory of survival of the fittest.

That's another great thing about Firefly is that it's basically a big Fuck You to Utopia. Utopia is boring... Utopia is predictable... Utopia is mindless prison. Utopia is never questioning what you're told. The price for free thinking in Utopia is to be cast out of Eden.

In Utopia, there is no need for family. The government will provide for everyone and decide just how it is to provide for them. Why would anyone need a tight-knit alliance with anyone friend or family if everything is provided for you and you never need anything? I think we've already had a strong dose of that in America and that's why divorce rate is continually on the rise and so many kids are growing up on mind-altering drugs, prescribed from the "legitimate pushers" and provided by the Drug Czars such a Pfizer, just so they don't act on their impulses and kill themselves or anybody around them.

Free thought in this world is a dying notion, and it saddens me that I will never be alive myself long enough to get off this rock and see what else is out there. Hopefully we can get Firefly to start back up again and I can keep dreaming about the verse out there.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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