X-MEN 3 and mediocritocracy (Extremely Spoilerific)

POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 21:14
VIEWED: 5818
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FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 4:34 PM

In retrospect, something to consider - and this struck me deeply because in the right context, everyone here could be considered 'dangerous' and thus should be contained/confined 'for their own good'... that's a very, VERY slippery slope.

Ok, Phoenix - as portrayed in the movie, only.

Name a single violent or harmful act she committed that was not in direct response to a real or percieved threat to her person, or personhood ?

Name ONE.

Scott wanted Jean, in effect to shove her back in her box or even outright destroy her.

Same with Professor X.

Magneto didn't care who or what she was, other than she was a mutant, and if she wanted to help his cause along, fine by him... you'll note that she just stood by peaceably, and didn't just go on a mindless rampage on everyone in sight, yes?

Magneto was also smart enough to NOT threaten her in any way.

This so-called cure, by many mutants including Phoenix, was seen as a threat to their personhood, thus she was of course going to assist in efforts to destroy it.

Phoenix never even got a CHANCE to prove that she could get along with the rest of humanity, it was denied her, and in the doing of this, an evil act was committed... and continued to be denied and suppressed, when theraputic fusion would have been a far better resource for both personalities.

Think about it, to be confined and destroyed not because you DID do a thing, but because you CAN do a thing ? - is this not prejudgement ?

Arrogant presumption of the worst order ?

Are there really, NO circumstances at all, where you or I, would not be "dangerous" to someone or something else ?

And would it be a morally right or wrong response to just let us be ?

Hard questions folks, easy answers.

What really is the difference between the PAX, and prozac/zoloft/thorazine/etc ?

Being human is more than just DNA.

-Frem

STORYMARK

Monday, June 12, 2006 1:16 AM

That's taking a Big leap to justify Scott's death as self-defense.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

PIRATEJENNY

Monday, June 12, 2006 1:59 AM

HKCavalier, that was very insightful , I didn't care that much for the movie either.

in some ways your right it is a reflection of our world, what we need and have always needed was more feminine energy and power and it's something that the world lacks which in some ways is why we are in the circumstances and shape that we are in.

Our world is in serious trouble Female power and energy is and has been surpressed,not only by male forces and energy, that fear our awesome power ,but also by us..ourselves, if we women would truly embrace our power this world would be a much better and saner place.!!

PIRATEJENNY

Monday, June 12, 2006 2:13 AM

Finally, Prof X blocking Jean's subconscious. I only saw the movie once so maybe I remember it incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure he said that she set up mental blocks to keep her dark side

Quote:
locked away, not he. I'm sure his plan would have been to try to work with her dark side while she was younger, but the mental blocks she installed were too powerful. He kept her sedated after they found her again because he knew how destructive her dark side could be and that he couldn't fight that side of her and win. The disappearance of Scott probably suggested to him that something bad happened and that Phoenix possibly was that bad thing. I don't think Wolverine was being visionary at all, and by keeping her sedated Prof X did exactly the right thing, namely try to suppress an evil he knew shouldn't be unleashed and possibly couldn't be beaten.

but isn't this how women in general are thought of espeically powerful women, that they must be controlled, that the power of women is something to be feared and , that we are out of control.

Jean Phoenix was to powerful , so she needed to be controlled, I thought it was anti feminine.

KHYRON

Monday, June 12, 2006 2:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
that the power of women is something to be feared and ,

It is if women can't control that power and it presents a mortal danger to others. Same goes for men.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

PIRATEJENNY

Monday, June 12, 2006 8:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
that the power of women is something to be feared and ,

It is if women can't control that power and it presents a mortal danger to others. Same goes for men.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

But that is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the historical suppression of women, and female energy.

The professors's controls/ blocks he put up to repress Jean's power can be compared to the control and blocks that men have put on females throughout history.

Even if Jean was a party to her own supression, this can be compared to the roles placed on females in society, in some cultures going against those set roles can lead to a very cruel and harsh death.

The Power of women have been feared for so long, men and the male energy force fear it.

Fear is the orginal sin, and its degrading, anything bred or born out of fear, isn't geniune

men I think subconsiously do feel that they will be consumed by female energy.? Jean consuming cyclops was a perfect metaphor for that particular fear, Hacaliver was right in his assesment I think !!There is a great imbalance in the world to much male energy and not enough female engery in power to conteract it.

its the yin and the yang..female engergy is the life force its the earth, the water, emotions, its the yin , the yang is the agressive male force the destructive powers in nature, both are needed for balance but ours has been surppressed.

if there has to be an imbalance , it would be better if it was on our side

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, June 12, 2006 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
That's taking a Big leap to justify Scott's death as self-defense.

For you, sure.
For me, maybe.

Phoenix on the other hand ?

Saw him as a threat to her personhood and acted accordingly - I mean, what do you THINK his reaction would be to the situation ?

I know if someone meant to do me in, well, imma big fan of pre-emption in that case too.

You really think Scott would have meekly accepted that she wasn't Jean anymore ?

-Frem

SOUPCATCHER

Monday, June 12, 2006 10:15 PM

I had a question that I was hoping someone with more X-knowledge could answer. The X-profiler on Magneto's team said that Phoenix was a class 5. What are Magneto and Professor X? (Maybe I'd know this if I had Made Mine Marvel ). I got the impression that they were nowhere near her power, so I assumed class 4.

If that's correct, than I have a big problem with a class 4 trying to dictate to a class 5 how they should use their powers. How would they know?

Personally, I think Professor X earned everything he got.

And put me down in the, "tired stereotypical portrayal of women characters" camp. Just because that's the way women are always portrayed doesn't make it right.

STILLFLYIN

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:01 AM

One thing that I think that merits discussion about this movie is the role that the humans had in the conflict. The conflict between mutant and human goes beyond the matters of power, the conflict between those who have it and those who do not, that many people discuss.
The two sides represent the fundamental division within humanity. The mutants represent those who relied on personal abilities to control their environment. The humans represent those who rely on intelligence to accomplish their aims. The mutants have great power that they use to further their cause, while the humans, lacking these advanced abilities must rely on ingenuity to defeat the mutants' powers, reference the prisons the government used to contain magneto and mystique, in both cases the imprisoned mutant was only able to escape with due to outside intervention.
An example of this relationship is the peasant with an old matchlock musket shooting down the armored knight who had dominated warfare for almost a thousand years.
The movie also looks at the willingness of a person to make sacrifices and hard choices. Human forces could have defeated Jean had they been willing to make the call. An air-burst Low-yield nuclear weapon, delivered by a balistic missile, would have been able to defeat rebel mutant forces. While Magneto had power over metallic objects and Jean over all matter, I do not think that either would have been able to stop a ballistic missile travelling at least 10 times the speed of a rifle bullet and even if they could, they would not have been able to react in time to do so. And once the weapon detonated, neither would be able to stop either the concussive blast or the searing heat produced. Any collateral damage would have been limited to areas immedately surrounding the water. Leech would have been lost, but based on the statements made by the scientists, a way probably could have been found to replicate the cure from existing stockpiles. And the mutant rebellion would have been over

KHYRON

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
If that's correct, than I have a big problem with a class 4 trying to dictate to a class 5 how they should use their powers. How would they know?

Well, in response to the underlined part, one doesn't need to be a class 5 mutant to know when a class 5 mutant is in danger of abusing his/her powers and present a mortal threat to many others, just like one doesn't need to be the president to know when he's abusing his powers.

Your argument is basically saying that the less powerful should succumb to the more powerful because what right do they have to stand up to the more powerful. So, let's see how we can apply that argument to real life:
i) the US is more powerful than other nations, so bugger other nations, the US can use and abuse them as it wants and how dare they try to stop it, they're less powerful.
ii) George Bush is the president of the US, therefore more powerful than pretty much any living thing on this planet. So who are these insects in the UN, in foreign governments, in federal government, on message boards, etc, who try to dictate how he should do his job? They're less powerful than he is so they should know their role and shut the hell up.
iii) some drunk guy who just came from a pub is trying to rape a girl. He's more powerful than I am in the sense that he's stronger and maybe even armed, so who am I to try to stop him? I shouldn't try to stop him because I have no right to, being a lesser being.
iv) etc, etc.

See where I'm going with this?

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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