Male and Female Imponderables--Post-Resurrection

POSTED BY: Tristan
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:56
VIEWED: 20978
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DESKTOPHIPPIE

Friday, June 9, 2006 1:05 PM

Quote:

Now, myself, I'm still a bit old-fashioned. I like opening doors for women, all that cliched stuff. Maybe that means I'm not a feminist, but I haven't met too many ladies who don't get a little bit of a kick out of it. I don't lay it on thick, or anything, or make a big production. (And it only goes so far. I can be easily persuaded to let a date pay for a meal. :)It's just the way I was raised, I guess. (And likely too many movies as a kid.)

I could be wrong, though. Anyone out there actually get offended if a guy tries to be a little chivalrous?

Absolutely not. Yes, I'm a feminist, but that doesn't mean I go nuts over silly things like someone opening a door for me or something. In fact, I get really annoyed when people get bogged down in those arguments. It's like making a huge fuss about being politically correct instead of dealing with underlying issues of racism.

I see feminism as more, well, common sense actually. It's the underlying differences women face in everyday life I'm concerned about. Take this example - I know two women who work for a consultancy firm. They're both bright, smart professionals - way smarter than me. Both of them put in long hours. Both of them have families.

Woman A had to fight tooth and nail to get promoted in the company. Her bosses were unhappy about the fact that she was a mother and therefore "had responsibilities outside the job." She can never take a day off to spend with her kids. If she has to take care of one of them when they're sick then the M.D starts making snyde comments about how a demanding role such as her's needs 100% dedication.

Woman B has two daughters, and the firm doesn't know they exist. Whenever she needs to spend time with them she schedules a ficticious meeting or "works from home." She feels horribly guilty about hiding her kids, but won't take a chance on getting labelled as disloyal by the M.D. Woman A thinks she's absolutely right and wishes she'd thought of it.

The M.D and several of the male consultants, occasionally take time off to spend with their kids. Whenever they do, everyone goes on about what great fathers they are.

That's the kind of stuff that burns me up. That's the kind of thing I hate with a passion and get all ranty about. Opening a door for me is really not a problem.

Apart from all the issues, I'm also simply interested in the differences between men and women, especially in literature. So that's why I describe myself as a feminist. Make sense?

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

TRISTAN

Friday, June 9, 2006 1:32 PM

SameErita, good to hear! I am generally happy with the way I am...but guys sometimes want to lose weight, too.

Copilot, you should not feel bad because you love sex. I know, "society dictates..." well, I don't listen to society on that issue. It is nice to know that females have the same urges men do. Doesn't make us feel we are the only ones with drives!

Seryn, not all of us males are simple (I know you meant it in a nice way...that's how I took it). Some of us wrap ourselves in problems we have no control over, obsess over minor details, etc. And it's not just the sensitive-type guys, either. I would not consider myself overtly sensitive nor a brute, but I do have a high level of aggression and combativeness. Having said that, I can also state that I worry constantly about many things in my life; keeping my wife happy, wondering about bills, thinking about starting a family and all the issues that brings up, where we'll be in ten years, why is my garden not doing so well, did I get everything done at work...things like that. To counter all this, I build things with my hands; armor, costumes, and whatever else I can think of. So, yes, we obsess, too...it just may not be as obvious all the time .
Oh, to maybe bring a smile to your face...socks are the first thing that come off.

PR, as far as butts go, I think there is a bit of a difference. I have never paid too much attention to another male's, but I have seen my own too often. I realize the anatomy of the butt is very similar between the sexes, but males generally have less "padding" than do the females. I have a butt...it's mostly muscle and all angular, and I can flex and create some really funny dimples (I have reduced my wife to tears of laughter while joke-posing for her and doing that). Women's butts have a softness to their lines that blur into gentle curves. Yes, there is muscle, and that also determines tone, but it's the softness that gets me.
Having said all that, I am more of a back man myself...the upper back between the shoulders down to right above the butt region...that's why my Kryptonite is a backless dress .

DeskTopHippie, I have also never liked the Alpha male mentality. I like to be protective, yes, but not "lock her away so the bad people can't get to her" protective. If you have seen my posts before, or seen her pictures, you know that my wife could have my back any day! It's sort of wired into the male mind to be the protector, but sometimes the wiring is really screwed up.

Aerin, I think heeled boots do help a man's posterior. I have a pair of engineer's boots that my wife loves for me to wear...and I think it may be for that reason.

NuclearDay, amen, brother! I was trying to figure out in my head the dominance thing...you nailed it! You and I were raised the same way; respectful to women (chivalric ideals), but not condescending.
Now, with my wife, I like to practice what I call "guerilla chivalry" as a joke...before she gets to a door, I'll say "Don't touch that!" really loudly, which pauses her long enough to allow me to get the door opened for her. I used to open her car door everywhere we went, but she politely informed me that was not necessary. We have fun with it, and we enjoy the reactions of the public.

I think I am caught up...sorry about the length!

____________

MSG

Friday, June 9, 2006 1:44 PM

Well NV, I'd be you've sent more than a few sparring partners home to a cold shower. As for the Jayne/Adam debate for me it's that Jayne is completely up front about what he wants. He's going to just lay it out and leave it for you to pick up or not and I find that attractive. I'd consider myself both a feminist and easily able to handle myself, but I also feel like I am secure enough to accept a gesture of help or protection from a guy without compromising my sense of strength. I figure you can't fight millions of years of instinct and I als think as long as a guy respects you and your ability to take care of yourself, there's no real reason to worry if he wants to open doors or be the first one out of the hatch to bash a reaver..whatever.. it's just a sign of his caring and desire to see you happy and safe and in no way ( as far as I can tell from all my guy friends) a statement of how competent or incompetent he thinks you are to protect yourself. We all want to take care of those we love. I think guys are just more physical in their taking care...wow this is way longer than I meant

RUGBUG

Friday, June 9, 2006 2:53 PM

Hi all! I'm new to the thread, but have read various parts of the others...until they got unweildy.... I thought I'd throw in my $0.02

Dominance: Hrmmm, as much as I am an independent woman, I like the feeling of "ease" that comes from having a strong, confident man around. The pressure for all the decisions is lessened. One of my biggest turn-offs is a doormat. Have an opinion. Don't be afraid to debate it with me. Have an idea of where YOU would like to go for dinner. Etc.

Men's bodies: Yum. I agree with the solidness...even if some of the solid parts are covered with a little soft. It's not like I've got a supermodel's body, I don't expect men to either.

Chivalry: Good stuff if it's not over the top. I personally think holding a door is polite, whether it's for a man OR woman. I hold doors for other women all the time. Just seems like the thing to do. Holding a car door, or a chair can be unexpected and cute once in awhile, but it can get old real quick. Having to wait for a guy to get out of a car, come around to open my door so I can get out? No thanks. It's not efficient and makes no sense to me. That's when it becomes annoying.

I've got a question for the guys: What is your feeling on independent women? I am a strong (physically...and emotionally, I suppose) woman who doesn't expect anyone to take care of me or to do things for me. I appreciate help, but won't ask for it. I find this intimidates a lot of men. I have a hard time making someone feel needed. If I am with someone, it's because I WANT to be with them, not because I NEED to be with them. Any opinions on the matter?

NUCLEARDAY

Friday, June 9, 2006 2:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PheonixRose:
But really, is there that much of a difference in butts between the genders? I mean, women have wider hips for obvious reasons, but it's still the same muscle. And it's sexy. It says "I can move around effectively. I'm a functioning person. And I have strength for thrusting!" In the case of women it can also say "I can bear children well."

I think I have to agree with Tristan on this one. It's not a huge difference between the sexes there, but it's certainly there. All the mucles are the same, sure. Females are going to generally have wider hips (one of the few key differences in our skeletal structure, IIRC.) Which makes a slight change in how the mucles lays over the bone. The biggest difference, though, is that women have a few more places to store fat than men do (butt, hips, and thighs are the ones that come to mind.)

Which is really a very long-winded way of saying what Tristan summed up as "softness." :P Also, it is of course a broad generalization (or a generalization about broads :) Women bodybuilders come to mind since they have such low body fat.

Sorry for the long-windedness. Got caught up again in the typing :) (All that money put into art school: anatomy, and years drawing naked people. And all I got out of it was an opinion about butts :)

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

NUCLEARDAY

Friday, June 9, 2006 3:00 PM

To RugBug's question about strong women: Maybe it's 'cause I'm generally a bit more passive, but I dig an independant woman. I don't do well with the high-maintenance thing, myself. Not a good sign if the whole relationship is going to be about her.

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

TRISTAN

Friday, June 9, 2006 4:16 PM

RugBug, independent is wonderful! Except the Alliance usually stomps on them...what? Oh, sorry, wrong type of independent...

I am in sort of a quandry about independent women...I respect them, and am all for independence. But, see, as a male, I still have that wiring I spoke of earlier. I have a "protector" flaw that runs in my veins that doesn't just apply to women-folk. Best way I can explain it is from the movie Hook...look out for anyone smaller than you. This does not mean I am this huge, hulking example of manhood, but I have a tendency to categorize people into threat levels. If I am out with my wife or a group of friends, I am always doing a threat assessment...if I see what may be a threat, I automatically become a protector. Doesn't matter if the person/people I am with are more than capable of taking care of themselves, that is the way I am. How this applies to the independent woman is that I consider my wife to be an independent woman, and she knows how I am in this regard. She goes with it, probably to humor me . When she needs help, she asks, but I try to stay out of her way otherwise.
I am all for independence, but please don't get pissed off at us males if we try to be all protective at times.

I also agree with your assessment of doormats, RugBug...but there are way too many men out there like that...and women who prefer them. Does that seem right to you?

____________

NVGHOSTRIDER

Friday, June 9, 2006 4:29 PM

Oh little COPILOT, don't fret. I think the stigma is attached to women so much because they have more to worry about, (Disease, infections, PREGNANCY). Stop the guilt. It is great that you enjoy sex. It is designed to be enjoyable. ENJOY IT. ENJOY IT OFTEN!. Women are the bearers of life. They should enjoy all that the world has to offer.

Jayne: I was gonna get me an ear too.

RUGBUG

Friday, June 9, 2006 5:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:

I am all for independence, but please don't get pissed off at us males if we try to be all protective at times.

I don't mind protective AT ALL. I love "belonging" to someone. Walking into a party with his hand on the small of your back declaring that your "his." Yep...that's all good. Protective is kind of nice...until it involves fists and blood. I think more of a man if he can diffuse a situation or even walk away instead of fight his way out.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:

I also agree with your assessment of doormats, RugBug...but there are way too many men out there like that...and women who prefer them. Does that seem right to you?

I don't understand why women prefer them. I don't want to be anyone's mother, telling them what to do, think, wear, etc. Where's the fun in that? But I suppose it takes all kinds...I'll just leave the doormats to someone else.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, June 9, 2006 5:41 PM

Yes, Copilot dear, you are obviously in a sucky place. But I still say enjoy the hell out of sex; it's one of the best things in life!
The only downside to really enjoying it is that you miss it when it's not happening.
*curls up in a corner*

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