Star Wars - Timeline issues

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, June 8, 2006 13:54
VIEWED: 5905
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AURAPTOR

Friday, June 2, 2006 5:57 AM

Among the list of things i didn't like per the prequels, one of my biggest issues was the timeline.The fall of the old Republic and the conversion of Anakin to Darth occurs not too long prior to Luke and Leia's birth, right ? But from A New Hope, we enter into a world where Jedi Knights are all but forgotten. A crusty old 'wizard' type figure living in the hills of Tatooine , who looks to be in his early 70's. So how old does that make Obi Wan at the end of Revenge of the Sith ? Mid 30's? Tops ? So if Luke and Leia are at their early 20's ( remember, Luke wants to go to school and become a pilot..he can't be much older than 22, tops ) Obi Wan shouldn't be much older than his mid 50's.

Also, from ANH, the discussion between Admiral Motti and Darth Vader. Motti, who appears to be roughly in his mid 40's, should surely be old enough to remember the Jedi Knights.

And Gov. Tarkin's comments as Vader senses the presence of his former master, Obi Wan - " Surely he must be dead by now. " Makes me think he'd expect Obi Wan to be far too old to still be alive.

And what about Han Solo? He claims to have flown from one end of the galaxy to the other, and has never even remotely acknowledged any such thing as 'The Force'. But if he's in his mid 30's by the time of ANH, seems he'd have at least heard SOMETHING. Even if he never faced it, I find it hard to buy that anyone as well traveled as Solo wouldn't have seen / heard something, even if he never bought into it.

My basic point in all this is that there seems to be a great disconnect in how Lucas formulated the whole story. On the one hand, we get a sense that the old Republic is a distant memory, and that Jedi Knights and those familiar w/ The Force have become the stuff of fairy tales and legend. But in contrast, all that universal amnesia seems to have occured in a period of less than 25 years. But Vader and Obi Wan both seem to have aged nearly twice that much.

Dunno how much this has been discussed, but it's bugged me since the prequels came out. Just wanted to vent.

Better now.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

STDOUBT

Friday, June 2, 2006 6:20 AM

I honestly think it's a matter of Luacs simply
being both sloppy and bound by certain casting
realities.
This site has a theory that might help you:
http://www.ammon-ra.com/skywalkerparadigm/main.html
It may also twist your melon beyond repair.
FWIW, it's really a fascinating read.
The links at the bottom of the page lead to
analyses of each Ep.

STAKETHELURK

Friday, June 2, 2006 6:27 AM

While I don't disagree with the overall point, "that there seems to be a great disconnect in how Lucas formulated the whole story," I do think with regards to how the Jedi are thought of in the classic trilogy there isn't too much of a problem.

In the prequels, we see that the Jedi are reclusive and secretive. It's likely that most of the population knows very little about them, and could well be suspicious of the tremendous authority being invested in what appears to be a secretive, unelected cult. Moreover, given their very small numbers and the very large size of the galaxy, it's likely that most people would never have seen a Jedi (and thus an exhibition of the Force) firsthand, which makes it all the more easy to convince them that the Jedi are a fraud.

Which is the next important point. Palpatine's legitimacy is based in part on the supposed "treason" of the Jedi, so it's in his best interest to spread misinformation that supports his side of things. And even just twenty years under a totalitarian regime can really warp people's perspectives, especially given that they were likely distrustful of the Jedi to begin with and probably also believed Palpatine was attacked by them. So it's easy to see how the Force could come to be widely seen as a "hokey religion" within just twenty years--it's in the Emperor's best interest to attack the main source of the Jedi's legitimacy, their mysterious power, and his audience is receptive to his assertions (the Emperor is probably also eager to encourage disbelief in the force since he himself relies on it so much--no one would think to counter what they believe doesn't exist). So, given the amount of distortion and propaganda the Empire no doubt disseminated over twenty years (and compare with the effect of some historical totalitarian regimes which didn't even last that long), it's easy to see why within a generation the Republic had become a distant memory and the Jedi only remembered as frauds.

Tarkin's comment about Obi-wan, "Surely he must be dead by now," always seemed to me to be referring to the fact that the Empire has no doubt been scouring the galaxy over the past twenty years for any surviving Jedi, to the point where they're pretty sure the Jedi are extinct.

As to the complaint about aging, I don't really have much of an answer to that one. As I said at the beginning, I agree with your basic premise about a major disconnect within the storyline. But I've always appreciated the Imperial misinformation about the Jedi to be one of the more realistic and interesting aspects of the classic trilogy.

AURAPTOR

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:18 PM

Quote:
As to the complaint about aging, I don't really have much of an answer to that one. As I said at the beginning, I agree with your basic premise about a major disconnect within the storyline. But I've always appreciated the Imperial misinformation about the Jedi to be one of the more realistic and interesting aspects of the classic trilogy.

I have thought of one possible way that might give Lucas some wiggle room here, but I really doubt that he would have given it much ( any ) thought. Plus I don't think that , if he had thought of it, it's applied in any rational manner.

The whole of humanity and how we age is based upon our view from one perspective. How we age here, on Earth. As Obi Wan put it so eloquently,

.... "many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. "

Its known that those who travel in space age slower than those who remain on Earth. Time slows down, for some reason..anyway, it could be that different planets promote different aging rates from each other... but still. If that's the case, the shouldn't Luke and Leia be noticably different in their age if they grew up on different planets ?

I'm just shooting from the hip here, and not really doing any in depth analysis. Just my 2 cents.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
I honestly think it's a matter of Luacs simply
being both sloppy and bound by certain casting
realities.
This site has a theory that might help you:
http://www.ammon-ra.com/skywalkerparadigm/main.html
It may also twist your melon beyond repair.
FWIW, it's really a fascinating read.
The links at the bottom of the page lead to
analyses of each Ep.

Checked the link out. Looks more like something that piratenews would be prould of. Lots of wild accusations and narry one ounce of hard evidence.

Funny, though.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

JONNYANIMAL

Friday, June 2, 2006 1:18 PM

At the end of III, Obi-Wan is 38 years old. 19-20 years pass between III and IV, making Obi-Wan almost 60. You might say "Damn, he looks like hell for being only 60." But I have some guesses why he may have aged:

Take in to condsideration the harsh climate of Tatooine. The twin suns, the sandstorms, the lack of moisture in the air - all bad for your skin.

20 years of living with the guilt of failing Anakin and leaving him to die on Mustafar. He could have developed post-traumatic stress disorder and he might have nightmares every night. He loses sleep. Which leads to -

Obi-Wan might be a hard drinker at the local cantina. This concludes my theory on why Ol' Ben looks like hell. I don't know why Tarkin would think that Obi-Wan should be dead.

As for Admiral Motti and / or Han Solo not remembering any Jedi. Keep in mind that in the prequels there were less than 10,000 Jedi, only 200 on Coruscant and the rest spread thin across the galaxy. Trillions of people probably never even saw a Jedi during that time, they only heard about them.

The Republic and the Jedi aren't forgotten. Most people supported Palpatine and thought the Jedi were traitors. They were in favor of the formation of the Empire and the extermination of the Jedi.

But the real reason there's plot errors in Star Wars is because Lucas only started out with a vague outline for the entire Saga. He didn't write all the scripts at once.

STAKETHELURK

Friday, June 2, 2006 10:10 PM

“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own points of view” is definitely a good quote to have in mind when dealing with some of Lucas’ continuity messes (and a good quote to keep in mind generally). If we take the POV of treating the saga as a film, then it’s pretty clear that Lucas was basically fudging with continuity in the classic trilogy to get wanted he wanted in the prequels. Like JonnyAnimal said, it’s the result of him writing the actual scripts of the two trilogies decades apart, working off only a vague outline.

If we take the POV of trying to find some internally consistent explanation, then it gets tougher. Personally, I tend to go with the fudging of the ages theory that JonnyAnimal advanced. I like your own explanation, because it sticks with the philosophy of the series. Unfortunately, it doesn’t quite work in the fictional Star Wars universe.

Quote:
Its known that those who travel in space age slower than those who remain on Earth. Time slows down, for some reason..

Spacefarers age slower only if they travel at relativistic speeds (close to the speed of light). Because the Star Wars ships get around relativity by jumping into hyperspace, they avoid any such time dilation. So, while a scientifically sound explanation, it doesn’t apply to the Star Wars universe.

If you want another timeline question, how ‘bout that first Death Star taking twenty years to build while the second one gets done in only four? My only explanation for that one is that the shot of the first Death Star being built takes place much further in the future than the other images in that montage. But even Lucas doesn’t really have a good explanation for that one.

STORYMARK

Saturday, June 3, 2006 12:20 AM

It could also be that what we see at the end of Ep III is a prototype, and not the actual Death Star from ANH.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MISSTRESSAHARA

Saturday, June 3, 2006 11:11 PM

As Hadden says in Contact, why build one when you can get the price of two (probably misquoting.) The Emporer in most aspects isn't a fool. He knows how vast the galaxy is and how hard it'll be to keep people in line, one Death Star will frighten people into playing nice but since we've seen how slow it moves it'd take a while to get from one end of the galactic empire to another. Maybe he realized he'd have to build more to ensure his hold over space. Makes sense to me. You don't build one warship even if it is the most powerful weapon devised, not when you have a whole galaxy to enforce. And from what we've been shown it's a hella big galaxy. As to the length the 1st one took to build as opposed to the second, well think about cars, or ships or anything mechanical, after you build one and know where all the pieces go the next one is easy. They had twenty yars to figure out how to build the thing (and learn it's vulnerable spots) and by then the Empire has a galaxy of resources at their command. They built the prototype as someone said, so the second one came easier. Well that's my opinion. Just think if the Rebels hadn't won, the galaxy would be infested with Death Stars. Not only to enforce the laws but expand the Emporers territory. No one will argure if there are two Death Stars hovering in your back yard.

As for the timeline that's easy, what we saw in the prequels was (best Doug Henning impersonation) "All an illusion."

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

RAVENHAIR

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 4:25 AM

I avoid all the timeline problems (which to me is just the result of Lucas not really caring about the logic of it all) by not watching the prequels (I may watch the third as a separate entity on occasion).

*****
Mal:We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.

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