Tony Blair/Tory or Labour?

POSTED BY: DallasFirefly
UPDATED: Thursday, June 8, 2006 19:12
VIEWED: 7573
PAGE 5 of 7

Geezer2,

You know, I was going to respond with all sorts of quotes from Hans Blix, Russian diplomats, HMG intelligence and on and on to show everyone how wrong you are. Once again, as many time before, you are completely 180 off.

And then I thought - why? Not ONE comment I've taken exception to has been right. NOT ONE And then, once more, you unashamedly lie without one shred of proof to call your own. So, I'm holding my reply.

You're not worth it.



Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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So you can't because we know you can't.

Go to it girl --- oh and I want dates too SVP

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Geezer2,

So how did I know you'd post that?

See, you can't prove what you claim. Worse, I've proven you wrong every time. Shall I recount the many lies you told in detail? You know, about support for the war being high, about the largest demonstration in Bristish history being ordinary, about US spending being flat (in real terms) during the Clinton administraion, and on, and on ... Do you really want me to emBARE-ASS you further?

I'm hoping you go for it - I have my post just full of quotes ready to go.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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I'm giving it 10 minutes and then I'm gonna take off. I've wasted enough time on you.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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FLETCH2
Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 15:33







Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DallasFirefly:
That is bizarre, the UK Tories going to our convention I mean. Is the annual Labour Party Conference held in August? I remember that Margaret Thatcher was replaced by Major at a Tory party conference in 1990. It would be good to see Blair go this year.

I wanna be Mr. Baccarin!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My bet is that he wants to hold out until 2008 so that he can stay in office as long as Mrs Thatcher did.


Damn, I hadn't thought of that. I hope Labour has a strong enough sense of self preservation to make sure Blair is out no later than 2007.


I wanna be Mr. Baccarin!

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Oh what the hell.

Hans Blix from his book "Disarming Iraq"

"My gut feelings, which I kept to myself, suggested to me that Iraq still engaged in prohibited activities and retained prohibited items, and that it had the documents to prove it."

(the book isnt online but is quoted in many places including the Butler Report page 112)

http://www.archive2.official-documents.co.uk/document/deps/hc/hc898/89
8.pdf

"We have also noted in the papers we have read that the broad conclusions of the UK intelligence community (although not some particular details) were widely-shared by other countries, especially the assessment that it was likely that
Iraq had, or could produce, chemical and biological weapons which it might use in circumstances of extremity. We note that Dr Blix, Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC, has said that:

My gut feelings, which I kept to myself, suggested to me that Iraq still engaged in prohibited activities and retained prohibited items, and that it had the documents to prove it.

Where doubts existed, they were about the extent to which the intelligence amounted to proof, as opposed to balance of probability. "

Russian

http://www.cdi.org/russia/239-11.cfm

" BBC Monitoring
Russian analysts predict three scenarios of US war against Iraq
Source: Interfax-AVN military news agency web site, Moscow, in English 1512 gmt 9 Jan 03"

"The second theory predicts that combat operations will last between six and 12 weeks. The main elements include the following: a major surprise resistance from Iraq's air force; protracted street battles in some towns; moderate civilian casualties and heavy property damage, attempts by Iraq to use weapons of mass destruction to a limited extent and strike oil fields in the region. Experts believe the chances for this second scenario are 30-40 per cent."

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/06/24/wmd.shtml

"Iraq WMD’s Could Fall into Al Qaeda Hands — Russian Diplomat" --- Created: 24.06.2004 14:32 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 16:39 MSK

“It is hard to claim that the former Iraqi regime had relations with al-Qaida,” Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov was quoted as saying. “At the same time, it is obvious that now Iraq has really become a magnet for terrorists of all stripes, and al-Qaida feels absolutely comfortable in Iraq. Therefore there is a high threat that components and materials that have possibly remained in Iraq could fall into the hands of international terrorists.”

So Russia still thought that there may be WMD material in Iraq even after the war.






Bill Clinton

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

"Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for."

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fletch2:
HMG believed Saddam had WMD. You won't find anything in the memos that says otherwise.

---

Well of course they did. They still had the receipts.

---

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Geezer2,

"... fact is that the British government, US government, Russian government, hell even Hans Blix all thought Saddam had WMD." (And due to unanimous urgency, war was justified.)

Actually, that's not completely true. Going more or less backwards though the list:

Blix The quote you selected was from 2002. But further information from 2003 is that "Mr Blix's doubts (about the existence of WMDs) set in when they returned to Iraq ... They inspected suspicious sites, acting on tip-offs from the intelligence agencies, but they found no credible evidence of WMD. " I said, 'If this is the best, what is the rest?'" In fact, he adds: "Considering how misleading much of the intelligence given us eventually proved to be, perhaps it was a blessing we did not get more."

Russian government This is from Putin - 'Specifically targeting the CIA report, Putin said, "Fears are one thing, hard facts are another." He goes on to say, "Russia does not have in its possession any trustworthy data that supports the existence of nuclear weapons or any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and we have not received any such information from our partners yet. This fact has also been supported by the information sent by the CIA to the US Congress."'

Germany I thought I'd throw in Germany, since I had it "The German intelligence officials responsible say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated Curveball's claims... Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND said they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector codenamed Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so. According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons."

Britain I scrapped the original to specifically reply to your link. I read the "Review of Intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction". What I got out of it was that 1998 - 2003 intelligence was concerned about Hussein's acne - 'break out' capability - but there was NO intelligence of WMD stores. And it did much foot-shuffling about why the public was accidentally led so astray. (mumble, mumble ... should have been more careful ... shuffle, mumle ... forgot to say worst case scenario ... mumble ... didn't caveat limits of intelligence .... mumble, shuffles, slides toward the door)
But when it came to the best on-the ground intelligence available - Blix's inspection reports immediately before the attack, it says:

Quote:

---

In total, UNMOVIC carried out, in a little under four months, 731 inspections, covering 411 sites, 88 of which had not been inspected before. It found and, where relevant, supervised the destruction of:
a. The illegally-imported Volga engines, and historic documents on the Iraqi nuclear programme, described above, flowing from leads given by the British Government.
b. Over 70 illegal Al-Samoud 2 missiles and over 50 warheads. When UNMOVIC’s operations were suspended in mid-March 2003, 25 more missiles and nearly 40 warheads remained to be destroyed. (As noted above, British intelligence had led to the discovery of the engines for the missiles.)
c. Two propellant casting chambers capable of producing rocket motors for missiles with ranges greater than 150km.
d. A small number of unfilled chemical munitions (all old).
e. 244.6 kg of declared but expired growth media and 40 vials of expired ‘toxin standards’.
We are surprised that neither policy-makers nor the intelligence community, as the generally negative results of UNMOVIC inspections became increasingly apparent, conducted a formal re-evaluation of the quality of the intelligence and hence of the assessments made on it.
We also noted the limited time given to evaluation of the Iraqi declaration of 7 December. ... work on the declaration was captured in a JIC paper on 18 December, properly described as “An Initial Assessment of Iraq’s WMD Declaration”

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