Angel S5, Damage and You're Welcome (SPOILER WARNING!!)

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:51
VIEWED: 7374
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EMBERS

Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

My only problem with WWF (that's odd, eh?) was that Angel should have just killed the two vamps from the first moment- he did later anyway- it felt real contrived.

well I think that there were two reasons for this:
Angel never ever kills a vampire until the end of Buffy's first season (what is that 1999?)
so if he went around immediately offing vamps on a WWII submarine then they would actually be altering the character....
Because the fact is that Angels character at this time is to not kill his own kind, and to not get involved...
later, in the 1950s (in AYNoHYEB, and how is that one for weird? LOL) Angel THINKS about killing the demon, but when the humans try to lynch him he walks away...still not caring...
Back then he was guilty but not pro-active.

and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

GROUNDED

Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.

GROUNDED

Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

Which is exactly why it was so stupid to do the episode in the first place! Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

EMBERS

Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Which is exactly why it was so stupid to do the episode in the first place! Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

the writers were VERY keen on doing a submarine story:
one of themes for Season 5 was being in the belly of the beast (having taken over Wolfram & Hart, they are trying to 'change the system from within')
and that is very much in keeping with a submarine story when you are deep under the ocean with no escape....
And they love filling in more history for Angel & Spike, so I'm sure that including Spike was irresistable. And with Spike's character they were showing that he still had a tendency to follow Angel's lead... AND that Spike had a tendency to trade up on coats (taking the Nazi jacket off of the dead officer is a pre-cursers to taking the leather duster off of the dead slayer, Nikki).

So personally I consider it to be one of my least favorite episodes, but one that fits into the season...and fits into Angel's own history (because as I said, Angel was NOT pro-active guy: he didn't kill demons back then, he wasn't a hero back then).

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

and of course the second reason is that if he was so keen on killing Nausferatu, than why wouldn't he kill of Spike? You have to be consistant within the story....

Okay, all is bought. Thanks, Em.

Chrisisbeentold

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 28, 2006 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.

But you think season one delivered a more 'pure' Angel, centering on him, and relying less on humour, is that it? A more moody, Batman-like thing, do I have it right?
That was sort of how I saw it, at any rate. Season two, while I liked it a lot, seemed to start getting main-character heavy.

Two centablos Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 28, 2006 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Angel on a sub? Fine. Just leave Spike out of it.

Now what fun would that be, mate?

No such thing as too much Spike Chrisisall

GROOSALUGG

Monday, May 29, 2006 3:20 AM

I loved Illyria, but re-watching "Smile Time" recently made me remember one of the big negatives to the Illyria eps--no more of Amy's short skirts...

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, May 29, 2006 4:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
I loved Illyria, but re-watching "Smile Time" recently made me remember one of the big negatives to the Illyria eps--no more of Amy's short skirts...

Yeah, but what about Illyria's skin tight blue outfit? Call me clueless, but I had no idea Amy looked like a supermodel until Illyria showed up.

Chrisisall, S5 is my fav season, but more for the ending 2 eps than anything else. Are you there yet?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

GROUNDED

Monday, May 29, 2006 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll wager you didn't like Smile Time

Actually I really enjoyed virtually every episode of S5. Smile Time was brilliant, even if it did have some uber-cringeworthy moments just like the rest of the season.
But you think season one delivered a more 'pure' Angel, centering on him, and relying less on humour, is that it? A more moody, Batman-like thing, do I have it right?
That was sort of how I saw it, at any rate. Season two, while I liked it a lot, seemed to start getting main-character heavy.

Two centablos Chrisisall

It's so much the moodiness - I mean Angel's plenty moody in S5 - it's just the presentation of it. Some lines from big moments in S5:

From You're Welcome:

ANGEL (to Lindsey): I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

From A Hole In The World:

ANGEL: Good. Guys...
WESLEY: You don't have to say it.
ANGEL: I'll say it anyway. Winifred Burkle. Go.

ANGEL: Come on. Let's save the day.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but it felt like the WB wanted the show to make it abundantly clear these guys were good. Just seemed really forced, and more than once totally took me out of the action.

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