Evil Firefly Haters
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 07:06
VIEWED: 55301
PAGE 10 of 20
An idea. Firefly is a kick ass sci-fi television show and has an extensive cult following. With the kinds of subjects brought up on FFF.net and the quotes I've heard used, there must be more than a few computer geeks and hackers among us. Perhaps the hackers among us should unite and nuke that bastards' website into non-existence. Breaking into his computer and ordering it to reformat his hard drive isn't such a bad idea either.
Grumble, snarl...
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Posted by saintproverbius:
Quote:
Yet there's actually very little direct parallel between the U.S. Civil War and the War of Unification in Firefly, as I've pointed out. In fact, many of your objections about the happenstances about the Civil War in your first article simply aren't analogous to what is in the presentation of the background of Firefly.
You can keep saying that, but (at least according to the interviews I've seen) Joss Whedon himself wouldn't agree with you. He stated several times that he based his show on the Civil War and Reconstruction. You can interpret Firefly any way you want, but that doesn't change what Joss Whedon said about it. The only other historical analogy from him I've seen is between Mal and the Viet Cong.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/cp/vol-03/no-02/talk/
Posted by saintproverbius:
Quote:
You can't even really compare the crew of Firefly to Jessie James, even though you did, because most of the crimes they commit really aren't that bad of crimes
I wasn't directly comparing anything in Firefly to the actual Jesse James. I was comparing the show's depiction of Mal to the myths surrounding people like Jesse James, which depict them as altruistic and kind, when they were actually dangerous psychopaths who rarely, if ever, stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Robin Hood probably never existed. I was saying that Mal and his crew are an extension of this mythology - albeit not based directly on any real person. You could say that since they are fictional my comparison is meaningless, but since Joss Whedon publicly stated several times that he was basing his show on Reconstruction era ex-Confederate outlaws - like Jesse James - I would argue that it is valid.
Posted by WZ:
Quote:
What is a plantation if not a factory? An agrarian one yes, but nothing like Jefferson's idea of a yeoman farmer's homestead and quite a lot like a any New England sweatshop. If you want to get into the Haymarket Riots, the Pullman Strike and the Molly Maguires, I can do that too.
Posted by saintproverbius:
Quote:
I think the main difference would be the word wage in the term wage slaves.
Even if you want to say that there's a bit of cross over there, plantations are factories and what not, I think it's unfair to say that the modern day corporations where the CEOs make billions off the work of the minimum wage hourlies is only due to the Southern plantation owners and not the descendents of the Northern Factory owners who paid little to nothing and disposed of workers when they weren't useful anymore. After all, there were a lot more factories in the industrial booming North than there were plantations in the South.
Slave owners, Northern robber barons and modern CEO's have one thing in common - the desire to receive the most work for the least pay - and a lack of government regulation ("tyranny") helps them to do this. The only real difference is the means they use to achieve their ends, and the moral arguments they use to justify them. You use the same argument against northern capitalism ("Factory owners...paid little to nothing and disposed of workers when they weren't useful anymore.") that Southerners used in the antebellum period and white supremacists use now in defense of the Old South. I would argue that either system was brutal to the working class, but the southern system, which involved ownership of humans, denial of education (which by the way, largely extended to what the Southern ruling class considered "poor white trash") systematic rape, and torture and murder without trial, to be somewhat worse than the Northern system (though not by much). Perhaps I am a namby-pamby, bleeding heart.
Anyway, I never said that modern capitalists are solely the heirs of the southern slave power, I simply wanted to point out that slavery was simply a different kind of capitalism from that pursued in the north, and not some kind of agrarian idyll, as it is often depicted. I was s
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nimitz:
An idea. Firefly is a kick ass sci-fi television show and has an extensive cult following. With the kinds of subjects brought up on FFF.net and the quotes I've heard used, there must be more than a few computer geeks and hackers among us. Perhaps the hackers among us should unite and nuke that bastards' website into non-existence. Breaking into his computer and ordering it to reformat his hard drive isn't such a bad idea either.
Grumble, snarl...
That wouldn't be very nice for the other three people involved with Ratsalad, who, as far as I know, haven't ever seen Firefly and have no opinions about it one way or the other. And doing that would hardly be in the spirit of the show which, as I understand it, is meant to celebrate human freedom? I believe the Four Freedoms were, freedom from want, freedom from fear, freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Please bear in mind, I was invited to post here by a Firefly fan.
-Willie Zaza
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nimitz:
An idea. Firefly is a kick ass sci-fi television show and has an extensive cult following. With the kinds of subjects brought up on FFF.net and the quotes I've heard used, there must be more than a few computer geeks and hackers among us. Perhaps the hackers among us should unite and nuke that bastards' website into non-existence. Breaking into his computer and ordering it to reformat his hard drive isn't such a bad idea either.
I kind of understand the anger, but real hackers do not nuke websites.
Only assholes do that.
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I am glad to see that tempers have cooled and that name calling has stopped. Opinions and defense of beliefs tends to cause one to be very passionate and if not held in check can lead to irrational arguing.
Personally, I feel everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether we agree with it or not. I would dare say that many here do not share the opinion of WZ. I know I do not. I think Firefly is one of the best written sci fi shows ever written, and had it been let to run its course, would have attracted a following to rival Star Trek.
My opinions of the Civil War, or War of Northern Aggression, are well known, and have been stated on this board before. I had ancestors that fought for the Confederacy, and not one of them owned a slave. All of them were farmers from Virginia and fought to defend against what they saw as an armed invasion force. Less than 6% of the Southern citizens owned slaves, and of that number, less than 30% actually fought for the Confederacy, so I would respectfully disagree w/ the common misconception that the War was fought mainly to liberate slaves. I can cite Lincoln's speeches, and comments made by him that will show slavery was not his chief concern, but will not do so here as it is not in keeping w/ the theme here.
I do not feel that Firefly is any sort of glorification of the South or the Confederacy, though there are some similarities in history and the storyline. I also respectfully disagree w/ the writer that the show or a movie would in anyway revitalize any sort of idol worship of the Confederacy or its cause. I think everyone should know their heritage, and what roles their ancestors may have played in it. I also encourage people to read more than just history books. I also ask that you remember the saying "history is written by the victor".
I did not much care for the article you posted the link to WZ. It seems to have an anti Confederate slant and seems to write Firefly off simply due to Joss's basing it off of the Reconstruction period of history. People may think what they wish, and write what they wish, but I hold the right to disagree w/ it, as you do our opinion of the show.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Your correct in your analysis of my comments. I was speaking out of anger. My remarks were also influenced by the fact that my sense of humor tends to be based on hyperbole. Besides, harassing his website would only make more people listen to the unenlightened crap he is spewing. 
Not only that but it would give him the dangerous position as a persecuted minority. I withdraw my statment.
Quote:
Mal: "Well, my days of not taking you seriously are definitely coming to a middle."
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yea an angrey mob would be fun! But an angrey mob against him would be a waste of time cause he's just not worth it.
mmmm i love mal!
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I read this guys entire site and had to pick up my jaw when I was done. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this guy is way off his rocker. Anyone who knows Joss Whedon's work knows it isn't about politics, its about humanity and the struggles they go through. Its about individual people, not societies. Just ignore him. Anyone who watches the show will get their own meaning from it.
Fox...the axer of all shows good.
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I read this guys entire site and had to pick up my jaw when I was done. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this guy is way off his rocker. Anyone who knows Joss Whedon's work knows it isn't about politics, its about humanity and the struggles they go through. Its about individual people, not societies. Just ignore him. Anyone who watches the show will get their own meaning from it.
Fox...the axer of all shows good.
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I read this guys entire site and had to pick up my jaw when I was done. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this guy is way off his rocker. Anyone who knows Joss Whedon's work knows it isn't about politics, its about humanity and the struggles they go through. Its about individual people, not societies. Just ignore him. Anyone who watches the show will get their own meaning from it.
Fox...the axer of all shows good.
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