Firefly politically incorrect?

POSTED BY: Bugboy
UPDATED: Monday, January 5, 2004 18:06
VIEWED: 15813
PAGE 5 of 6

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT PAGE

JEFFERSON

Friday, December 26, 2003 8:06 PM

I apologize for boldfacing the entire previous post. It was accidental.

LORA

Friday, December 26, 2003 8:35 PM

I am impressed.

Ya'll have only missed one thing I like about the characters in this show: they have dignity. They all treat each other with dignity, or get banished from the dinner table.

Dignity + Responsibility + Liberty = Serenity?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

PARKWHELEN

Friday, December 26, 2003 9:55 PM

I think people read too much into the politics. It's fiction.....a portal to get away from reality. I'm in the military and as right wing as you find them, but I love the West Wing which is as liberal as they come and I love this show too. I can care less about the politics! I just love the story lines and the characters. It's not real. It has nothing to do with our government and what's right or wrong today.

NOTTHEONE

Friday, December 26, 2003 9:57 PM

Quoting:
I respectfully submit to you that Firefly challenges one of our most cherished politically correct beliefs: that a majority has the moral right to impose its will on a minority, or even an individual. Again, every man, woman, and responsible child has the inborn, innate, irrevocable right to say, possess, or do anything, anywhere, at any time, without asking anyone's permission as long as they don't initiate force or fraud against another. Even if the majority disagrees with what they have to say, possess, or do.
__________________

I agree with you in all but one aspect. It is definitely part of the U.S. mindset to believe that "every (one) has the...right to...do anything...as long as they don't initiate force or fraud..." You claim that it's not, but this is something that we are all taught in elementary school, it is held up as an ideal, and put forth as the primary reason for the founding of the country, the central message of the Declaration of Independance, and the purpose of the Bill of Rights.

Of course, it's ALSO part of the US mentality to believe that the will of the majority is always right. The two beliefs are both part of our way of life, and neither could ever be called politically incorrect. The only political incorrectness is when someone points out that the two are mutually incompatible. That's when people start getting upset.

as to whether the show actually points out the incompatibility of the two, I haven't noticed it. It might, but I'd need examples pointed out to me.

<><>
Take my love, take my land,
Take what you can't understand.
I still have my DVD.
You can't take the sky from me...
Cancelled now, fade to black,
tell us it ain't coming back,
Cut off my cable TV
you can't take the sky from me...
There's no show that I can see
But since I found Serenity
You can't take the sky from me...
<><>

TURBO100

Saturday, December 27, 2003 3:55 AM

I think you may be looking in the wrong place for the reason that FireFly was canceled. I don't think it has anything to do with the current political climate, and much more to do with a lack of promotion of the show by Fox.

The reason that I think that you may be looking in the wrong place is that I loved Fire Fly, but agree with the President's statement that other nations are either with us or against us when it comes to fighting Terrorisim. I think the two subjects are apples and oranges.

Turbo100

BUGBOY

Saturday, December 27, 2003 5:33 AM

I know exactly why Firefly was cancelled, you state it yourself: lack of promotion by Fox Network. What I am suggesting is the view that Firefly's wide lattitude in dealing with moral issues may have made Fox Network and what they would consider potential viewers uncomfortable.

So if you think the president's statement is so concise, then why didn't we invade Iran, who we KNOW has harbored and abetted terrorists, to say nothing of what we already KNOW about its nuclear capabilities. Why aren't we invading N. Korea? Syria? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? Countless African nations? Or are those apples and oranges too? It's fine and dandy to take out a murderous beast in a disfunctional country, but toss a blade of grass in the air while you are there and it will blow in the direction of another one.

Notice how anxious Iran is to bring Saddam to trial so "all can see the countries that have been dealing with him in the past", to paraphrase the official statement from Tehran. You think they don't relish that the facts will come out about our current Secretary of Defense, shaking hands with Saddam back when we wanted him to kick Iran's a$$? And where he got the helicopters to gas all those Kurds? Talk about gray area!

Don't get me wrong, it would be the biggest disaster ever for us not to finish what we started in Iraq, I just hope the rest of the country has the stomach to see it through. History only remembers the disasters, not the successes.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak!" - Jayne

TURBO100

Monday, December 29, 2003 12:51 AM

I find your response interesting, however, I beleive that I must not have made the thrust of my previous post clear. The apples and oranges portion refered to my opinion that the political/moral factors in Firefly were unlikely to have had an effect on the Fox networks treatment of the program. I only pointed out my political opinion in order to support my theory. I did not intend to inflame a political debate, as I don't beleive that I will convince you to see things my way, or vice-versa, but back to the main point... Based upon much of the programing on Fox I think you are giving the decision makers of that network far too much credit. I just don't beleive their decisions are made on deep issues. They probably decided to spend their promotion assets on some silly reality program, making a bet that most of their viewers would respond better to that type of crap than a great show like Firefly.

BUGBOY

Monday, December 29, 2003 2:29 AM

Yes, I admit I pulled out my entire collection of soap boxes and for that I apologize. And you are probably right about the giving the network too much credit for its decision making logic, since the popular garbage on television today obviosly is not the result of quality assurance on their part. Least common denominator would be my guess.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak!" - Jayne

SUNNSHIINE2

Monday, December 29, 2003 2:35 AM

I thought the discussion on black/white v. grey was interesting and thought I'd comment. ^^

Leaving aside Firefly itself for a moment: Drakon, I think you have a different definition of grey, black, and white than I do.

To me, "black" would be a situation that is universally frowned upon. Murdering innocent children, for example, is universally thought of as wrong. Likewise, "white" is a situation that is universally thought of a good. For example, saving a child from a burning building is pretty much A-OK wherever you go.

"Grey" is a situation that significant portions of the world cannot agree on. In today's world this includes subjects such as the death penalty, abortion, stem cell research, prostitution, etc. In the Firefly universe the unification of the planets under the Alliance was somewhat disputed by certain factions. To me, whether or not a situation is "grey" has nothing to do with my own, or anyone else's, personal views. You may view capital punishment as a completely clear-cut issue and that's fine. But because a significant amount of people (in the United States at least) will disagree with you no matter what your stance is, that makes the entire issue of capital punishment "grey."

To get back to Firefly specifically, I'm not sure that it did deal very much with grey issues like, say, the show Everwood does. Yes, Mal's a criminal, but he gives medicine to sick kids instead of making money off it. Sounds pretty white hat to me. Yes, Simon is a fugitive, but only because he saved his little sister from cruel and painful experimentation.

I mean, take the episode Ariel. As Simon's outlining the heist Kaylee objects to stealing medicine because "people need it." Simon and Zoe are quick to point out that the hospital will be restocked in a matter of hours and the medicine can then be sold to the people that need it. The script writers didn't just write that conversation in by accident; it's there for the express purpose of establishing the crew's moral integrity.

Take into account the fact that we were never shown what good the Alliance does. Doubtlessly, there were some good aspects to unification or no one would have supported it. Inara supported unification and she's an intelligent woman, so there must have been a reason for it. But we're never given reason to view the Alliance in a sympathetic light. They're just the bad guys.

The Reavers, Blue Sun, and the Alliance are the black hats and the crew of Serenity are the white hats. Well-- maybe not Jayne. But even he gets upset when that kid in "Jaynestown" dies for him. Doubtlessly Joss would have brought more and more moral subjectivity into the show as it went on, but, well. From where I'm sitting, Firefly didn't actually deal much in "grey" areas, politically incorrect or otherwise.

BROWNCOAT1

Monday, December 29, 2003 3:08 PM

Well said Gadsen & Jefferson!!! I agree w/ your points, and am glad to know there are others who do not let the slanted history books color the truth.

I think Joss intended Firefly to show us a universe where a man, whose spirit was damaged by the loss of a war for independence, and his loss of faith, deals with space ruled by the victor. I think he wanted to paint a picture of a universe struggling to survive, of a clash of the castes, and of an oppressive government imposing its will on worlds it does not lift a finger to help.

I think he did a great job of it. I do not think politics or a lack of political correctness played into the demise of Firefly, rather I think it was nothing more than the poor management by Fox and their desire to go after ratings.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT PAGE