Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.
POSTED BY: pastorbadger
UPDATED: Thursday, November 22, 2007 09:57
VIEWED: 83595
PAGE 21 of 30
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat2006:
Coupla things I would like to point out... yes the Revers in Serenity (the pilot, not the movie) had an EMP weapon... well, not really a weapon so much as an Electro Magnetic Grapple... NOT an EMP gun... second, Book is definatly dead... third, Revers WOULD NOT have a pretty silver n' blue ship, it wouldda been all scared, pitted and blackend jagged metal with loverly crimson red BLOOD all over it, if not a few dozen thin hood ornament type dudes on it... and the ship wouldda also been venting black smoke for it's not operating with core contanment, and FINAL... your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*
you read the movie script?
"A moment after serenity blows through frame , so does a reaver ship.
It fires an electronic pulse at serenity and sparks fly"
and....
"WASH
I am a leaf on the wind. watch -
A massive harpoon CRASHES through the windshield and impales him to his chair. It's as thick around as a telephone pole.
Wash has time to open his mouth in surprise before he is dead."
think that clears it up nicely
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Yeah, and if you read every other script for every other incident someone in a serial has died (see long list above by actually reading thread), they'll all say "He's dead, Jim", too. I'm certain the script for "Wrath of Kahn" DIDN'T say, "The genetic material of Spock is ejected in a torpedo casing to be reconstituted by the lingering Genesis effect". Means nothing.
We've already stipulated to the telephone pole : (Cough. Ahem.) Steering Column!
"Wash has time to open his mouth in surprise before he is dead." First : remember the dead guy in the mail?
Second, this is so cleverly phrased that the ambiguity makes me even more certain that Wash will rise again. After all, we all had time to open our mouths before we were dead. My script says "Pastor Badger has time to do what he needs before he is dead." (Yes this is stretching the ambiguity, but Joss would have gone to extremes to leave this thread untied.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Yeah, and if you read every other script for every other incident someone in a serial has died (see long list above by actually reading thread), they'll all say "He's dead, Jim", too. I'm certain the script for "Wrath of Kahn" DIDN'T say, "The genetic material of Spock is ejected in a torpedo casing to be reconstituted by the lingering Genesis effect". Means nothing.
Again, you're useing Star Trek as an example - a show with lots of stuff that Joss has said would never be in the verse - aliens, supernatural beings, and uh... people coming back from the dead. Apples and oranges. A point I've made before... but if you're gonna keep saying steering coulmn over and over....
Quote:
Second, this is so cleverly phrased that the ambiguity makes me even more certain that Wash will rise again. After all, we all had time to open our mouths before we were dead. My script says "Pastor Badger has time to do what he needs before he is dead." (Yes this is stretching the ambiguity, but Joss would have gone to extremes to leave this thread untied.)
You've got to be kidding. Talk about reaching. He died right there on the page. It doesn't say he opened his mouth before he died twenty years later. He breathed his last.
Of course, nothing anyone says will convince you at this point. I doubt it would make an impact if Joss showed up one your doorstop himself and said "He's dead. Deal with it." Willfull self-deception at it's finest.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Nope, not comparing Star Trek to Firefly. Just comparing two movie scripts. Not comparing apples and oranges, just makeing a general observation about fruit. ;)
After all, how many times has a particular author killed a character, only to have another ressurect him? Joss's original intent isn't even relavent. The script could say "Wash is so dead, he can't even come back in flashback". Wouldn't matter.
It's not denial. Schrödinger's Wash.
ROFL!
(Nobody ever gets my best stuff.)
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I've read a bunch, and I myself would love to have Wash alive again. Watchin' the series with my own friends and family, you can't help but be a little hurt when Wash and Book kick the bucket...
But it's over. Wash is dead, and he ain't coming back. As much as I'd like to scan the movie for any and all errors that might show he's alive, as much as I'd like to research the chances someone could survive an injury like that, I think the movie points it out well enough.
Mal stays with Book until he dies. Can't stress that part enough. That's who Mal is, he ain't gunna walk out on someone he cares about during their dying breaths.
He tells Shepard he was a part of the crew, not to talk, to hold on...but even Simon's medical experience don't mean anything if it doesn't get there in time.
So when Wash gets pinned into the cockpit by a harpoon shot hard and fast enough to shatter airproof heat resistant space shuttle window, And Mal and Zoe flee...they know he is dead. Two well experienced, very loyal to this man people LEAVE HIM. If Wash was alive, or had any chance of surviving, do you really think they would have done that?
And when Kaylee shouts "Wash? Where's Wash!?", I recall Zoe saying in a cold hidin' back the feelings voice "He ain't coming." Not "Well, we think he's dead, but we didn't wanna get killed ourselves checking."
The third thing was the flight itself. No ordinary pilot could have wormed their way between a large scale air battle like that. Everything was resting on Wash, and he brought them to their destination. As a pilot, his mission was complete. Wash died a hero.
As Joss has said, it's about normal, run of the mill people trying to get by. They aren't invincible, they aren't imbued with super-powers or mystic elements. They're just folk, like you and me. Wash was shot through the chest with a deadly harpoon. It's his end.
... ... ...*weeps a little and decides to wear a hawaiian shirt today*
Dear Diary... Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PoeandFaith:
I've read a bunch, and I myself would love to have Wash alive again. Watchin' the series with my own friends and family, you can't help but be a little hurt when Wash and Book kick the bucket...
But it's over. Wash is dead, and he ain't coming back. As much as I'd like to scan the movie for any and all errors that might show he's alive, as much as I'd like to research the chances someone could survive an injury like that, I think the movie points it out well enough.
Mal stays with Book until he dies. Can't stress that part enough. That's who Mal is, he ain't gunna walk out on someone he cares about during their dying breaths.
He tells Shepard he was a part of the crew, not to talk, to hold on...but even Simon's medical experience don't mean anything if it doesn't get there in time.
So when Wash gets pinned into the cockpit by a harpoon shot hard and fast enough to shatter airproof heat resistant space shuttle window, And Mal and Zoe flee...they know he is dead. Two well experienced, very loyal to this man people LEAVE HIM. If Wash was alive, or had any chance of surviving, do you really think they would have done that?
And when Kaylee shouts "Wash? Where's Wash!?", I recall Zoe saying in a cold hidin' back the feelings voice "He ain't coming." Not "Well, we think he's dead, but we didn't wanna get killed ourselves checking."
The third thing was the flight itself. No ordinary pilot could have wormed their way between a large scale air battle like that. Everything was resting on Wash, and he brought them to their destination. As a pilot, his mission was complete. Wash died a hero.
As Joss has said, it's about normal, run of the mill people trying to get by. They aren't invincible, they aren't imbued with super-powers or mystic elements. They're just folk, like you and me. Wash was shot through the chest with a deadly harpoon. It's his end.
... ... ...*weeps a little and decides to wear a hawaiian shirt today*
Dear Diary... Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.
As I posited in the first post, it's the alliance finds Wash's recently perforated body. If all Simon has is his skill and wits, there's only so much he can do. That's why he took River to Aeriel. Sometimes, you just gotta have the gadgets.
Second, Zoe's belief that his injuries were unsurvivable aren't relavent either. Wouldn't be the first time she'd made that mistake either ("The Message"). She left because Mal ordered her to. (The show covered that ground, too.) Mal ordered her to, because it was the right thing to do tactically.
It's easily possible. We've proven that, time and again. It's emnently likely, considering EVERY other science fiction franchise has done it already. You must face your fear of the Holy MacGuffin in order to move on. End your denial and embrace the Holy MacGuffin.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat2006:
your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*
Sincere thanks. (That's "thanks without wax" for the over-educated among you.)
Already have duster though. Rode fences for five years on my step-father's ranch. (To this day, I keep my 30-30 Winchester in a saddle holster. Even though the saddle is looong gone.)
Chasin' cows with horses by day and watchin' "Star Trek" by night in the late sixties. Any wonder I love Firefly? lol
By the way, I've got one complaint along that line. In "Shindig", Serenity takes on cattle. No way, no how is any cow setting foot on that open grating in Serenity's cargo hold. They just won't do it.
Does anyone know if they put plywood down on the set, or what? Any cowboys here can back me up on this?
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Okay, got it. Whatever happened in the movie (from Wash's mortal wound, to his death gurgle, and the fact that the Alliance was too busy fighting a massive battle to bother with performing miraculous first-aid on a guy they were essentially trying to kill anyway) - irrelevant.
The script - irrelevant.
Joss' stated intentions - irrelevant.
Joss' insistance that Wash is very, very dead - irrelevant.
Joss' promise that no-one comes back from the dead in the 'verse - irrelevant.
Alan's insistence that Wash is dead, and his admission that he thought it was best for the character - irrelevant.
The only thing that seems to be relevant is your insistance, contrary to all evidence, that Wash is "100% alive".
Gotcha.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, got it. Whatever happened in the movie (from Wash's mortal wound, to his death gurgle, and the fact that the Alliance was too busy fighting a massive battle to bother with performing miraculous first-aid on a guy they were essentially trying to kill anyway) - irrelevant.
The script - irrelevant.
Joss' stated intentions - irrelevant.
Joss' insistance that Wash is very, very dead - irrelevant.
Joss' promise that no-one comes back from the dead in the 'verse - irrelevant.
Alan's insistence that Wash is dead, and his admission that he thought it was best for the character - irrelevant.
The only thing that seems to be relevant is your insistance, contrary to all evidence, that Wash is "100% alive".
Gotcha.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Given the irrefutable history of science fiction film-making? That's pretty much the picture.
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