The Relevance of Serenity

POSTED BY: MarsOrBust
UPDATED: Monday, May 8, 2006 08:22
VIEWED: 8521
PAGE 5 of 5

Ah yes, name-calling, the mark of a post that should in Real World Discussions. I was not trying to be a pretentious ass and I'm sorry if it sounded that way, I was just trying to point out that your posts were strangely formatted because of the quote tags.

Give me a break, I'm new to this. Is this any shinier?



Most of it was, but I have a hard time believing that eveything in the Soviet Union was copied.

There was nothing in Soviet science or industry that was not stolen from the West. If you do not bleive that..investigate it for yourself. The Soviet suystem robbed the people of personal iniative as all basics became "rights". The profit motive was removed and with it the drive to innovate and/or excel.

I never said that, I just wish the government would give a hand to sick people instead of a finger.

The people also have to be willing to help themselves.




Most of the people I know don't, the rest are the type who don't care about the business practices of the companies, all they care about is getting crap for cheap.

Which is altogether natural.


OK, who should I believe? A guy on the Internet who for all I know could be joking? FOX news who tell me that the president is perfect? Some nut who writes about what the voices in his head say and then prints it on an underground newspaper? Where can I find the truth?

Well here we find that reality appears to be entirely subjective. Folks make value judgements based upon thier own experiences and sadly on what they want to be true rather than what actually is. The Christian, the Muslim, and yes, the Humanist liberal all have something in common: they all beleive in things that are not supported by the empirical evidence. The War of the 3 faiths.
It is up to the individual to investigate the matter for themselves. I can tell you my friend that at least Fox news attempts to give voice to both sides of the arguments as opposed to the liberal networks that all but completely ignore any viewpoint save for the liberal one and that is very much on purpose. There is an agenda.
The books are there. Go find them. The socialists have not been able to erase the truth they just blind you to it by framing the debate the way they wish because they have enjoyed a total monopoly on the media until the advent of talk radio and Fox news.
In my opinion, the liberals are in fact a disjointed conglomeration of varoius interests that have grouped together against what they percieve as a common enemy. They all have thier own little pet thing that directs thier opinion on all matters.
For example: a radical feminist's pet thing is the abortion issue. Saving her "right" to destroy her child as a form of birth control is paramount to her. The Republicans are opposed to this as we know, so in her mind the Republicans must be defeated no matter what. This would remain even if it was found that Saddam had all the WMD in the world. Another plan of attack would then be engaged.
The Dems support her "right" to have her child sucked out of her body with a vacuum, so they are "right" on all matters no matter what; because they tell her what she wants to hear.
Just one example.


Yes I am, but assuming I could get off my lazy ass and get down to my library, which books are true? I can probably find books in the library that will support and refute you views, which ones are right? Since you are biased towards your point of view I can't trust you to objectively inform me of which ones to read, so how do I choose which ones to believe?

Yes..Iwill fully admit that I am biased against any ideology, no matter how well meaning that seeks to deprive me of my freedom for ANY reason. You should be too if freedom is something that you enjoy.
The Dems will takes us closer and closer to a Soviet system. That is a fact. Investigate what life was like in the Soviet Union and decide then if a world run by Wal-Mart and Big Oil is worse.



Once again, where? You say that the media has been infiltrated by the EVIL, socialists (which I am aware of by t

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by MarsOrBust:
Give me a break, I'm new to this. Is this any shinier?

---

It's a little better, if you know HTML it works just like those tags. At the start of each quote you type ]quote[ only with the brackets flipped in, at the end of the quote you type ]/quote[ with the brackets in (I am typing it with them out so that you can see). The tags can be nested as well i.e. ]quote[ ]quote[ stuff from the first quote ]/quote[ stuff from the second quote ]/quote[ I hope this helps, with some practice you will get it.

Quote:

---

The people also have to be willing to help themselves.

---

So if I have leukimia and can't afford to get a marrow transplant it's my fault? I don't have the money so I'm not "helping myself"?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

all they care about is getting crap for cheap.

---

Which is altogether natural.

---

Actually the need for crap is caused by the TV which reminds me I need to buy some new Nikes

Quote:

---

Well here we find that reality appears to be entirely subjective. Folks make value judgements based upon thier own experiences and sadly on what they want to be true rather than what actually is. The Christian, the Muslim, and yes, the Humanist liberal all have something in common: they all beleive in things that are not supported by the empirical evidence. The War of the 3 faiths.
It is up to the individual to investigate the matter for themselves. I can tell you my friend that at least Fox news attempts to give voice to both sides of the arguments as opposed to the liberal networks that all but completely ignore any viewpoint save for the liberal one and that is very much on purpose. There is an agenda.
The books are there. Go find them. The socialists have not been able to erase the truth they just blind you to it by framing the debate the way they wish because they have enjoyed a total monopoly on the media until the advent of talk radio and Fox news.

---

Once again how do I sort out the truth from the chaff? I have spent my entire life forming opinions, some on facts some not. Everything I read will be colored by my previous experiences and most of what I read will either be not true at all or only partially true. Unless I am willing to spend every waking minute hunting down the truth the Powers That Be, liberal and conservative, will be able to fill the airwaves, libraries, and yes bulletin boards with too much crap to sort through.

Quote:

---

In my opinion, the liberals are in fact a disjointed conglomeration of varoius interests that have grouped together against what they percieve as a common enemy. They all have thier own little pet thing that directs thier opinion on all matters.

---

That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Quote:

---

For example: a radical feminist's pet thing is the abortion issue. Saving her "right" to destroy her child as a form of birth control is paramount to her. The Republicans are opposed to this as we know, so in her mind the Republicans must be defeated no matter what. This would remain even if it was found that Saddam had all the WMD in the world. Another plan of attack would then be engaged.
The Dems support her "right" to have her child sucked out of her body with a vacuum, so they are "right" on all matters no matter what; because they tell her what she wants to hear.
Just one example.

---

This works both ways, many of the people who vote Republican vote that way because they believe that abortion is wrong. They then get emotionally attached to their loyalty and begin to just spout the party line. But you are right, and blind loyalty is a very bad thing.

Quote:

---

Yes..Iwill fully admit that I am biased against any ideology, no matter how well meaning that seeks to deprive me of my freedom for ANY reason. You should be too if freedom is something that you enjoy.

---

One of the freedoms that I enjoy is the freedom to choose my religion instead of having it mandated by the state. The Republicans want to make the Bible law and I do not hold to the tenets of the Bibl

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

OK, where'd I put my asbestos underwear...

Been reading this thread and waiting to see if there's any new historical perspective light gonna be thrown on it all -- haven't yet so here goes...

I, too, am a student of history, and I, too, come from a military dad upbringing. My old man was in the Air Force, was in the service during the whole Cold War, and he once told me the only thing the military ever taught him was how to hate and how to drink. He died an alcoholic, but at least he stopped the hating thing pretty much once he got out. Took loads of marijuana to make that happen, I suspect. Anyway...

What's always fascinated me is that when you look at "liberalism / socialism" at work in societies invariably it is always a reaction to the captilist or aristocratic totalitarianism fostered by those seeking control over other people's economic resources. The history of all wars is rooted in acces to and control / monopolization of power and resources.

Revolutions -- i.e. those promulgated by "the people" to procure their freedom from Gov't / Aristocracy rule or oppression -- usually come out of populist socialist movements. The American revolution was the browncoatish colonists against the English King -- tho, it should be noted that many of the early colonists did NOT want to break away from England, they just wanted to be treated fairly. What drove them into "we're gonna be rebels" camp was the fact that England's solution to the colonists' fussin' was to give them a big ol' spanking (via all them imported Hessian "peacekeeping" troops) instead of treating them like the English citizens they believed they were -- the whole "No taxation without representation" thing was a "crying foul"about the Americans not having a vote in parliament over what affected them in the ol' pocket. In fact, the Boston Tea Party, it has been plausibly argued, was the American Tonkin Gulf incident: something that the colonists could use to their advantage in fomenting dissent against England.

Also, England was at war with France, which kept England militarily occupied, which meant that "the enemy of our enemy is our friend" which is why we went to France for military aid and without their warships and arms and money we would never have beaten England and become "independant."

In Czarist Russia, it was the intellectual leftists and masses of poor peasants fueled by Marxist ideology who started the Bolshevik revolution. In China after WW2 it was the peasants led by Mao who "reacted" against the corruption of the warlords and the ruling Chiang Kai Shek U.S. backed government looting the country (read "The Soong Dynsty" by Sterling Seagrave -- great book) which fomented the whole communist rise to power. "Power to the people" is a powerful idea -- worked wonders here, right? Our entire self-image as a freedom-loving democracy is rooted in this idea.

In Cuba, it was Castro's organization of the peasants against the tryanny and oppression of Batista's U.S. mafia and Government installed regime that resulted in the communists taking over there. In Vietnam, Ho Chi Mihn went the same route against the French. He originally came to America for help in the late 1940s I believe to get us to help him kick out the French. We rebuffed him so he went to the commies who were more than willing to help him.

Same thing applies to the Muslim militants in the 1920s and '30s who were staunchly anti-comunist on religious grounds cus the commies were atheists, so when the American gov't rebuffed the Muslims (also on religious grounds) the commies as well as Hitler did everything they could to aid Muslim nationalists after the collapse of the Ottoman empire and in all countries where Muslims were under Western occupation or influence. It was Hitler's SS boys who originally set up the Bath party in Iran as a vehicle for totalitarian police state rule back in the '30s. And this list goes on and on, sadly... We aid Osama cuz he's anti-communist and will shoot down those pesky Soviet helicopters for us. But as soon as the war is over, we dit

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by MAGhaffar:

Flame away...

---

Gorram, boy! Got nuthin' to flame you about. I applaud a new voice with as much knowledge and thoughtfullness as you display!
You go girl (guy- whatever)!

Sometimes inappropriate Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Quote:

---

no feminism

---

Also cool

Quote:

---

no infrastructure

---

Not so cool

Quote:

---

The freedom that is metaphorized in Serenity will find its real world(s) application there.

---

Let me know if it works out

Quote:

---

Those not willing to embrace that have in effect embraced the "Alliance" that is taking shape around us.

---

Or they just want to be able to leave their doors open...

---

LOL, you are bad, F.

ChrisisallBwahahahahahaha

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by MAGhaffar:
OK, where'd I put my asbestos underwear...

---

Did you find it? I have flamethrower I'd like to try out

Quote:

---

My old man was in the Air Force, was in the service during the whole Cold War, and he once told me the only thing the military ever taught him was how to hate and how to drink. He died an alcoholic, but at least he stopped the hating thing pretty much once he got out.

---

The great part about the military is that you always see the worst of the other side, and everyone around you hates them, groupthink.

Quote:

---

What's always fascinated me is that when you look at "liberalism / socialism" at work in societies invariably it is always a reaction to the captilist or aristocratic totalitarianism fostered by those seeking control over other people's economic resources.

---

Hippies against "the man"

Quote:

---

The history of all wars is rooted in acces to and control / monopolization of power and resources.

---

You forgot land, although I suppose it can be considered a resource, and ideologies are also quite powerful, although many wars caused by ideologies actually have deeper roots.

Quote:

---

"Power to the people" is a powerful idea -- worked wonders here, right? Our entire self-image as a freedom-loving democracy is rooted in this idea.

---

Unfortunately it has become power to the rich, although I suppose that when the U.S. started only rich white men could vote, now everyone can vote but only rich white men can actually influence the government, progress.

Quote:

---

We aid Osama cuz he's anti-communist and will shoot down those pesky Soviet helicopters for us. But as soon as the war is over, we ditch him -- so he takes his CIA training and Saudi oil/family money and hatred for the "great satan" and we get Al Qaida

---

A lot of people don't seem to realize how many of these people we have created attempting to contain the Soviet Union.

Quote:

---

Trouble with almost every "people-powered" revolution thang is whoever winds up in power just turns it into their own fiefdom. This is axiomiatic with virtually every well-intentioned "freedom" movement cuz once a few people get a lot of pwer they generally want to keep it, which results in the Big Brother apporach -- secret police, spying, control of banking, trade, resources, etc.

---

Yep, I wonder how many of the revolutions were started by a small group of people for the SOLE purpose of putting themselves into power.

Quote:

---

Communism has proved itself a major failure on every level except good intentions.

---

Yep, which is why I'm not afraid of it.

Quote:

---

Capitalism unchecked always engenders monopolization which is just another term for economic totalitarianism. In societies that allow dissent like in America, you get the predictable "Leftist / liberal" reaction and struggle to overthrow the Fat Cats.

---

Which is why I'm afraid of it

Quote:

---

Trouble with a lot of leftist thinking is it gets bogged down in those pesky human rights worries (sarcasm in case you can't tell). Something Big Money types and corporations are generally not hampered by.

---

So very true, if only we cared as little about people as the Right-wingers.

Quote:

---

One political scientist guy once remarked that fascist regimes and socilaist regimes tend to meet up with each and exchange positions with predictable results due to the expansion of their political powers and territories. Think of the definitions of "democrats" and "republicans" from the 1860s. Their ideologies and temperaments were virtually 180-degrees opposite of what we think of them as being today. In less than 100 years they've gone through just the "swapping out" of ideologies predicted with Fascist / Socialist powers.

---

The Republicans were the "party of Lincoln" who had the liberal thought of freeing the slaves, until the 50's when the Black people wanted to vote too, then the Republicans switched to Conservatism.

Quote:

---

Being a Browncoat is far more a philosophical outlook of

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME