We're gonna nuke Iran!

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, February 28, 2026 17:47
VIEWED: 4913
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WORKEROFEVIL

Friday, May 5, 2006 12:59 PM

Also, one (there were probably others as well) reason that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen was because they had not suffered too much damage from conventional bombing prior to the big bombs. The big wigs wanted to end the war, but they also wanted to see just how much damage was done by a nuclear bomb. As such, they needed cities that were relatively intact so they could measure exactly how effective the weapons were.

CITIZEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:02 PM

Also the effects of the Nuclear bomb on a Human population were not known.

Who better to test the effects of your latest weapon on if not the enemy?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WorkerOfEvil:
Also, one (there were probably others as well) reason that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen was because they had not suffered too much damage from conventional bombing prior to the big bombs. The big wigs wanted to end the war, but they also wanted to see just how much damage was done by a nuclear bomb. As such, they needed cities that were relatively intact so they could measure exactly how effective the weapons were.

I think that Hiroshima was a 'B' site, as another city ( i can't recall which ) was targeted as the 'A' cite was waved off as it had too much cloud cover.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Also the effects of the Nuclear bomb on a Human population were not known.

Who better to test the effects of your latest weapon on if not the enemy?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

And because the effects of incendiary carpet bombing of civilian centers in Europe was already known.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 2:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think that Hiroshima was a 'B' site, as another city ( i can't recall which ) was targeted as the 'A' cite was waved off as it had too much cloud cover.

Nagasaki was the B site for the Fat Man weapon. It was selected as a target, but only a secondary target because it was believed it's hilly terrain would (and did) reduce the weapons effectiveness. The A site was Kokura but it was covered with clouds, and the crew had orders to drop the bomb visually.

Quote:
And because the effects of incendiary carpet bombing of civilian centers in Europe was already known.

I'm sure you're trying to make a point...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

FLETCH2

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:09 PM

There were some in the 50's that thought that nuclear bombs could be used in big civil engineering projects as a mining explosive.....

CITIZEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:13 PM

There was some in the fifties who thought the nuclear tests would crack the surface of the Earth like an egg.

What can I say, some people juggle geese .

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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CHRISISALL

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

And maybe you think the use of preemptive nukes is justified

Nuke Them Before They Nuke You
Another quality home game from Butler Bros.

Chrisisall, who sees a mushroom cloud as W's going out present...

KPO

Friday, May 5, 2006 4:14 PM

Quote:
Do you know the Japanese were offering their surrender, but the only term, namely don't destroy our culture, was considered too unreasonable?

The Allies (I am under no illusions that Britain rubber stamped the usage thus we are complicit) wanted an unconditional surrender, the nuclear bomb would get that. Britain and America wanted to show Russia "whose boss", the nuclear bomb would do that too.

Well it was supposed to; instead it scared Stalin into a nuclear program of his own and helped spark the cold war, but whatever.

This article challenges your points quite specificaly Citizen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/nuclear_01.shtml

Fredgiblet's point is definitely a valid one i think, since we were determined to force complete surrender on Japan and there were only two ways to accomplish that. Destroy their culture?? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but since in the end we won that war I guess we must have done so. Japanese culture died out 60 years ago then? Huh.

I suppose it could be reasonably argued that we shouldn't demand unconditional surrender from a country we are at war with, it is enough to just beat them far enough into a corner that they are no longer capable of hurting us. But if we had adopted that strategy with Germany and/or Japan, it's hard to think how the world would have turned out a better place.

CITIZEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Destroy their culture?? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but since in the end we won that war I guess we must have done so.

You're misrepresenting what I said, I didn't say the "Allies planned to destroy Japanese culture". It is not important what the Allies planned, it is important what the Japanese THOUGHT they planned.

The surrender terms given to the Japanese in the Potsdam Proclamation made no mention of Japan's most important surrender condition, which was the status of the Emperor who the Japanese saw as a god.

Furthermore the Proclamation made some statements that appeared to directly threaten the Emperor:
"There must be eliminated for all time the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest"
"stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals"
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450726a.html

There was a desire for peace in Japan, a movement that had wanted peace long before Hiroshima. They supported surrender, but again ONLY if the status of the Emperor was assured.

Japan's Prime Minister Suzuki said on the 9th of June 1945:
"Should the Emperor system be abolished, they [the Japanese people] would lose all reason for existence. 'Unconditional surrender', therefore, means death to the hundred million: it leaves us no choice but to go on fighting to the last man."

I think it's quite clear that the Japanese thought that an unconditional surrender would mean the destruction of their culture, their way of life and them as a people. They thought that it would be better to fight to the death than too let that happen.

In fact even after the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese were not prepared to surrender, what tipped the balance was a personal plea to the cabinet (who were the only people who could declare surrender) by the Emperor.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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