IMMIGRATION
POSTED BY: impression
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 2, 2006 20:49
VIEWED: 17082
PAGE 7 of 8
A stripper or an exotic dancer? How insulting are you? Oh please!
You are Xerogravity, because that is something he would say.
Anyway, do you have any opinion regarding the immigration issue without 90 pages of yapping and pictures of teens being run down by tanks?
I can tell that this will get ugly if I stick around.
River
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'll just add a few more thoughts on the topic. My basic take is that if you can make it into this country and want to work hard and make a better life for you and your family then you are an American. Whether or not you are a legal American is beside the point, in my mind.
I am an American by default. I didn't make a decision to make this country my home. I was born here. But I like to think that, if I had been born somewhere else, I would choose to move to this country and live. Because, to engage in a little patriotism, I happen to think that this is the best country on earth (I also happen to think that we can do a lot better, but that's a completely different discussion). So I tend to have a lot of respect for people who are Americans by design, those who left where they were born to come to this country.
There is a lot of complaining going on about lawbreaking. So what. We break laws all the time. I break the law every time I go over the speed limit. Does that make me illegal? It's a conscious decision I make because I think the speed limit is too low or I'm in a hurry and getting to where I'm going is more important than the fine I'll pay if I get caught. Or whatever rationalization I can come up with. It's a judgement for me. As long as I'm not a danger to anyone else I have no problem disregarding this particular law. And, if I had been born in some other country and wanted to live in the US because I thought I could improve the chances for my children (non-existant though they may be) I'd like to think that I would do whatever it took, short of physically injuring someone, to make that happen. I think it says a lot about the strength of our country that so many people want to be Americans.
But, some argue, they don't want to become Americans. They just want to send money to other countries, steal from the services that citizens have paid taxes for, send their children to public school for free, and then leave the country when they've milked it for all it's worth. Why should we put up with that behavior? Well, I might pay more attention to some of these criticisms if they hadn't been bandied about by white supremacist groups for decades. White power groups have been using the threat of a brown America as a recruiting device for quite a while (Before the Mexicans it was the Japanese, and the Chinese, and the Catholics, etc. etc. etc.). And some of the rhetoric (reconquista - seperatist projection, anyone?, they're all criminals, they're all on welfare, they don't speak English, etc) has slipped into the mainstream discourse. So pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical on how large a problem any of these claims are. I rarely hear people back them up with actual numbers. I have seen studies, however, that show the amount of money undocumented immigrants contribute to the economy.
The Pew Hispanic Center is a decent resource for studies of this nature. Check there to see if there are some actual numbers to back up the assertions. Until then, it's people talking out of their ass, as far as I'm concerned.
To give an example. I've heard people complain that undocumented workers send their children to public school for free, thereby mooching off of the taxes paid by citizens. Property taxes pay for schools. It's probably a good bet that an undocumented worker is renting (if they own property, than they're paying the taxes already). If the landlord isn't adding the property taxes into the monthly rent than they are a stupid businessperson. So how are they not paying for public schools?
I guess I interpret a lot of the complaining about illegal immigration as a sign of a lack of faith in the strength of American culture and society. My country is strong enough to absorb immigrants as long as they come here to work hard. We have in the past and we'll continue to in the future. It's not right for the second and third and fourth, ad infinitum, generations to try and shut out a new wave of firsts. I tend to think that this country changes people. Once they've lived here for a
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Good post Soupcatcher, thanks
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Carefull PN, there may be someone out there with more training on heavy weapons than you.
Hard to believe I know, but possible.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Vyse:
I'm willing to bet though that while European gas prices are higher than the U.S.'s, their real wages are higher than the U.S.'s also. You have top take that into account when translating funds.
Wages between the US and UK are comparable, with goods costing much more in the UK.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Why do you THINK Jr Bush's PR firm and the Mexican Fox's PR firm picked May 1 for their illegal riots by criminal alien hoodlums? May 1 is Communist May Day, Satanic Beltane, birthday of the Bavarian Illuminati, and LAW DAY...
Satanic Beltane? What the hell are you on? Beltane was a pagan holiday that celebrated the return of spring. And criminal alien hoodlums? So we're going to comepletely ignore the high number of criminals our own country has? Ever heard of Gacy? Dahmer? Capone? All American creations.
At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Soupcatcher,
Might I inquire on just one point in your opinion? The number being bandied about for illegal immigrants in the US is 12 million, give or take. I think you can grant me that I'm not posting information to back that up, and I'll grant that it's just the number I keep hearing in the press. It can very easily be wrong, and I don't know any better.
You don't like the illustration about those 12 million people breaking the law, because you think in your opinion it's a fair law to break. What do you say about the people that take the time and effort to enter the US properly? It's a difficult, expensive, and very long process that those people endure. We're talking thousands of dollars (which in almost any case I've ever seen has been an extreme financial burden) and a year or longer that they can't even *visit* the US (once they've been accepted to processing, which could be several years on top of that), lest their application be rejected and the process be started over again from scratch.
Are these people just stupid fools for making every effort to adhere to the laws and regulations established by the US? Perhaps everyone that wants to "be American" should just jump a flight to a location near a US border and enter illegally, since that's the more effective way to do things?
Amiton.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by Vyse:
I'm willing to bet though that while European gas prices are higher than the U.S.'s, their real wages are higher than the U.S.'s also. You have top take that into account when translating funds.
Wages between the US and UK are comparable, with goods costing much more in the UK.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
Is that a number like the GNP, or a minimum wage. The minimum wage in the U.S. when you convert it to real wages is level to waht it was in 1968. The price of living has gone up, but not the wages.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Amiton, I agree with all of the posts you've posted so far in this thread. Just wanted to let you know. Haven't got time to enter the discussion myself, but I would pretty much just be saying what you've already said anyway.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
It was the mean average wage for the US for 2002 compared to the UK for 2004 (which should be higher because of inflation 
).
The figures are £20,000 ($36 394) for the UK 2004.
The figures I found (from a website I looked at this morning, which I can no-longer find, bloody Google 
) for the US $34,334 for 2002.
In $US the minimum wage in the UK is ~$2 an hour more.
Cost of living:
A house (single family, I'm guessing this means what we call a detached house) in the US: $264,540
In the UK: £285,697 (~$519,882)
Consumer petrol prices, as I stated are about double what they are in the US.
I don't have exact figures but I know food and clothing is cheaper in the US, as are most luxury goods (Cars, electrical etc).
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME