IMMIGRATION
POSTED BY: impression
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 2, 2006 20:49
VIEWED: 17082
PAGE 4 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by Sassalicious:
P.S. There's a thread about this in RWED
And that's where this thread belongs as well. :)
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I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!
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just to add to that...I don't mean we shouldn't discuss issues - just not ones that are likely to stir up that which makes us hate. Let us focus our energies on Firefly/Serenity. We can deal with other issues later...No disrespect intended for your views - I agree with FUTURE MRS FILLION'S last post on this thread...
there was no end...
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Quote:
Originally posted by malsheart:
Why are we having this discussion on this site? I understand many of you are passionate about this topic, but this kind of talk is downright exclusive (as opposed to inclusive). I am tempted not to come back, which would be a gorram shame, us UK Browncoats need to be kept on side. I could spend a long time talking to you about migration, but I'd need to look you in the eye...remember Mal an co are "illegal" and most definitely migrant workers...
there was no end...
This is the real world part of the forums. If you don't wanna talk about it go to the other sections.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
This is part of the problem, though, deepgirl187. Nobody in the US should only be making two dollars per hour doing anything unless they are in a commission paying position or self-employed. The employers that are paying those wages need to be punished. Yes, there are consequences for such actions, one of which being an increased price per unit for agricultural goods (and other affected industries), and that in turn will have a ripple effect throughout the economy. That doesn't change the facts - those companies (or co-ops, or whatever level of employment) should never have been doing business that way to begin with. If they couldn't operate that way and stay in business, then they shouldn't be doing that business. If it cuts their bottomline, then I don't have much sympathy, especially considering the rediculous profit margins of bigger corporations. Capitalism is a tough environment, and it's one of the reasons I don't want to be a businessman.
The same argument applies to the other jobs listed as well...those are unskilled labor markets. There are people, American people, who will fill those positions if the pay and benefits are laid in accordance with US law. The problem again is with the employers who are trying to trim the corners and make an extra dollar by exploiting the fact that they can put someone in a position to take whatever is offered and has no recourse. Unemployment may be at 5% or whatever, but I'm sure many of them would take *legal* pay to do those jobs, and I'm almost positive that the majority of this nation's homeless would (mind you, I'm speaking of the truly homeless, not the people bankrolling money by panhandling and pulling government welfare even though they're able to do better).
Amiton.
I do agree with you in the fact that corporations should be punished. I just think that our government should take their share of the responsibility rather than placing all the blame on immigrants.
At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
This is part of the problem, though, deepgirl187. Nobody in the US should only be making two dollars per hour doing anything unless they are in a commission paying position or self-employed. The employers that are paying those wages need to be punished. Yes, there are consequences for such actions, one of which being an increased price per unit for agricultural goods (and other affected industries), and that in turn will have a ripple effect throughout the economy. That doesn't change the facts - those companies (or co-ops, or whatever level of employment) should never have been doing business that way to begin with. If they couldn't operate that way and stay in business, then they shouldn't be doing that business. If it cuts their bottomline, then I don't have much sympathy, especially considering the rediculous profit margins of bigger corporations. Capitalism is a tough environment, and it's one of the reasons I don't want to be a businessman.
The same argument applies to the other jobs listed as well...those are unskilled labor markets. There are people, American people, who will fill those positions if the pay and benefits are laid in accordance with US law. The problem again is with the employers who are trying to trim the corners and make an extra dollar by exploiting the fact that they can put someone in a position to take whatever is offered and has no recourse. Unemployment may be at 5% or whatever, but I'm sure many of them would take *legal* pay to do those jobs, and I'm almost positive that the majority of this nation's homeless would (mind you, I'm speaking of the truly homeless, not the people bankrolling money by panhandling and pulling government welfare even though they're able to do better).
Amiton.
I do agree with you in the fact that corporations should be punished. I just think that our government should take their share of the responsibility rather than placing all the blame on immigrants.
At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.
That is all this Government does though, blame any other reason for problems in the country except themselves, and that goes for both parties. The truth is that politicians and their corporate pals depend on these cheap workers. They are greedy, and want to keep as much money to themselves as possible.
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It is nice to see that everyone has an opinion about this issue. Some of you have some really good points and some are just talking to have something to say. I know, that is my opinion and here is the rest.
I live in a border city and my house and work are not even ten minutes away from the border. I know a lot about living with illegal immigrants. It is always easy to throw blame around about not being able to stop the flow of illegals into America. There are hundreds of miles of area along the Mexican-American borders. There is not enough man power to cover all of the space that needs to be protected. Remember, that is not the only border that needs tobe protected.
The illegals that are already here should be sent back. They are using tax payers money and not paying back. And no, most do not pay taxes back. We are forced to accept there kids into our education system and then required to change the way we teach in order to make sure that they can understand. Why they are mainstreamed when they can't speak or read the language is beyond me. If they want to be an American, they should go through the right channels to be a legalized American.
There are so many more things that I can give my opinion on about this issue but what good does it do. No one can do anything until the government decides what it is going to do. I have my teaching job because I worked for it. This way I do not have to take jobs that I do not like. If everybody else went about the rules, they would not have to work low paying, hard working jobs.
Just my opinion.
Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by impression:
okay river6213...you seem to be a lil pent up on the whole situation and first of all...mayflower or no....those illegal aliens u keep referring to...your ancestors..so take some blame...secondly...spaniards landed america first...check ur history...thirdly...if u knew anything about religion and anything about the spaniards, the english, and anyone else coming over to america...a lot of the stuff they did, they used religion to make them look better but they barely did anything in the name of God, to the peasants of their mother land's, it looked noble and justifiable..much the same way bush thought WMD that didnt exist was enough reason to go over to Iraq...they were hiding behind one reason for another, exploitation of God will send them to the bad places of hell only reserved for those movie talkers...oh and by the way, the native americans fought with the french and owned slaves...and not every mayflower alien lived in the south...some white folk fought to actually free the africans because they honestly believed it was wrong....and the whole native american reservation thing...yeah once long ago it was a tragedy for them..but you know how quickly they jumped onto american technology and advancement...and the reservations now....casinos and gambling and stuff...seems to me like they have decided for themselves to move quite a bit a way from their own culture....and everyone in the western hemisphere outside of the native americans can be considered illegal aliens but i have to post this question...lets say origian starts in the middle east(not talking only Iraq because geography was different then) like it states in the Bible and other religious books...people spread out over time....North America was once completely empty until, wait, uh people crossed over from asia into northern canada and started populating the world, so yeah they may have found the land, but life makes it necessary to find new land, so both they and the Mayflower people were searching for land correct, so arent even the native americans either illegal aliens or was it just lifes theory of the strong survive and if so, you gotta be considering yourself for even being lucky enough to be here that your ancestors found it worthy enough to take the time and make a way of life for you, even though there were hardships along the way that i neither think were okay or think would have made this country what it is if they didnt happen....the past has happened...people need to get over themselves and if your going to point fingers...point fingers from every angle and understand from every angle.
Oh but you are wrong. I feel totally responsible for everything that is wrong with the United States today. I inherited the result of all the bad decisions making of our forefathers; we all have, and the immigration problem in this current day is just as much my fault as it is any citizen who lives here.
Also, I know my history. I was being general to get a certain point across, and you are correct, history already happened, but I don’t understand the “get over yourself” remark. Humans have a long memory when something bad happens to them, or their group. The United States will never forget Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Japan will never forget being nuked twice back in WW2. The Jews will never forget the holocaust. China will never forget, nor forgive the rape of Nan king; Black American’s will never forget that they were slaves and considered property at one time. The Natives in the North America region will never forget the lies, the genocides, and the total barbarous, back-stabbing nature of the white man. No nation that was touched in a negative fashion by Germany from WW2 will ever forget it, and all of these nations will make certain that once every year, they will remind us all of the atrocities that one group had met out to another. It’s our nature. Its human nature, so I’m uncertain about this “get over yourself” remark.
I judge a big man how he treats a small man. I judge a b
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060501/ap_on_re_us/immigration_boycott_da
y
Like I said, I don't really care about this issue very much, but I had to say my favorite part of the article was this quote: "You should send all of the 13 million aliens home, then you take all of the welfare recipients who are taking a free check and make them do those jobs," said Jack Culberson, a retired Army colonel who attended the Pensacola rally. "It's as simple as that."
Majority of welfare recipients aren't getting a "free check" unless they are severely disabled and/or mentally ill. States require that one work some minimum amount and usually kick one off after a few years. Hell, even the lowest rungs on the military infrastructure receive some welfare benefits because they certainly don't make enough, especially if they have a family.
You also make the point that most people would do those jobs for a legal amount. That "legal amount" in just about every state is below a living wage. In WI, it's $5.15/hr and a living wage in Madison is around $10/hr, I believe. It's very near impossible to survive on that amount, especially with children EVEN if you magage to get aid (again, see book referenced in previous post). You also said that the homeless would probably be willing to work those jobs. A number of homeless people actually have jobs. Not all, you're right, but many do. They just don't make enough to keep a proper roof over their head.
But I do agree with you that the businesses have a fair part of the blame for generating a market for illegal immigrants.
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OMG!
Did I miss something in the news? Is something supposed to be going on today? Is today special?
I decided to try my hand at driving my Jaguar to downtown Seattle to see too a few things at the office. BTW, its good to be able to drive again!
Well, here I sit, in traffic...stopped dead by what is starting to look like more than 50,000 people demonstrating. There are a hundreds of very pissed off looking cops milling about, and the communters are all mad as hell! I'm writing from my wireless laptop. Thank goodness I brought some coffee and my cellphone with me!
The people stuck in traffic are out of their cars and are in an ugly mood. Its rush hour here right now and I guess the demonstrators picked this time to make their point. Well, I guess we can't ignore them now. I guess I won't be going anywhere, and I can't turn around, so I guess I'm stuck here.
I guess this issue regarding illegal immigration isnt going away anytime soon. I hope our leaders find a solution to this mess that we can all feel okay about.
P.S. Are you aware that gas prices jumped up!!! I had to pay $3.00 a gallon!!!! OMG!!! This is what I get for not paying attention to the news!!!!
A Stunted River
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