Why terrorists will ultimately fail...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 00:13
VIEWED: 9344
PAGE 6 of 14
So, Finn, since a terrorist is defined by their means (not their goals, since nobody argues that their goals are morally inferior) and the invasion of Iraq was entirely optional- what does that make Bush?
I really don't expect an answer.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:The invasion of France was entirely optional. Almost all Islamic terrorist’s goals center on the destruction of Israel and the establishing of an Islamic fascist state. Effectively, their goals are the same as those of the Nazis. I would argue that the establishment of totalitarian regimes and the eradication of Jews are “morally inferior” goals to those generally expressed by the US whether they are sought by Nazi Germans or Islamic Terrorists.
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, Finn, since a terrorist is defined by their means (not their goals, since nobody argues that their goals are morally inferior) and the invasion of Iraq was entirely optional- what does that make Bush?
I really don't expect an answer.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Bush does what his conscience (and God) tell him to do; those towel-heads only pretend to be doing the same.
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, Finn, since a terrorist is defined by their means (not their goals, since nobody argues that their goals are morally inferior) and the invasion of Iraq was entirely optional- what does that make Bush?
See?
Chrisisall, who air-dries after a bath, no towel ever touches his head
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:The US is a federal democratic republic by definition, and the US was much more aristocratic in the past then it is today. People who seek to equate the totalitarian theocratic philosophies of groups like the Taliban with the democratic republic of the US have very little perspective on the issue. You know, disagreement with this war would carry more credibility if they weren’t based on fantasies. Calling Bush a terrorist or claiming that the US is a totalitarian state doesn’t make your anti-war argument more plausible; it just diminishes your credibility and reliability, thereby making your arguments appear less plausible. This is what we call shooting your argument in the foot.
Originally posted by reaverman:
But we are no longer a Democratic Republic. We are now a Corporate Aristocracy parading around pretending to be a Dem. Republic, which, in my book, is just as bad as the Theocracy. The war was fought for profit and the personal gain of a few corporations. The Islamic Fundamentalists fight for their ancient "holy" literature. Both reasons are equally wrong.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Did you hear me say that Bush is a terrorist? No (though by his own definition, he often fits the profile).
Did you hear me say that America is a totalitarian state? No.
The point that I was trying to get across was that America's government is run by corporate sponsored puppets that remain in office far too long (96% of representatives are re-elected; many have been in office for most of their adult life). So, to me, when it comes to comparing religious extremists fighting because an ancient book and a few crazy clerics tell them to, and our nation being manipulated into a war for profit, neither side is much better than the other.
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
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Quote:You just did, didn’t you?
Originally posted by reaverman:
Did you hear me say that Bush is a terrorist? No (though by his own definition, he often fits the profile).
Quote:Yeah. Did you not say this? I think you did.
Originally posted by reaverman:
Did you hear me say that America is a totalitarian state? No.
"No, there isn't a moral equivalent between a totalitarian Theocracy and a Democratic Republic. But we are no longer a Democratic Republic. We are now a Corporate Aristocracy parading around pretending to be a Dem. Republic, which, in my book, is just as bad as the Theocracy." [[]Emphasis mine[]]
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Finn, are you saying a Corporate Aristocracy IS a totalitarian state?
And...just because I fit the description of an idiot, doesn't necessarily make me one.
Chrisisall, leaving himself wide open...
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Quote:No. Reaverman is. He believes that the US is a “Corporate Aristocracy,” but that (whatever that is) is “as bad as the Theocracy. [[]Emphasis mine[]]” Well, the theocracy that we are talking about is a “totalitarian” theocracy. Therefore, if we are to believe what reaverman said and we can assume that he understands the context of the discussion, then he believes that the US’s form of government is tantamount to totalitarianism. It’s plain as day.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn, are you saying a Corporate Aristocracy IS a totalitarian state?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:No. Reaverman is. He believes that the US is a “Corporate Aristocracy,” but that (whatever that is) is “as bad as the Theocracy. [[]Emphasis mine[]]” Well, the theocracy that we are talking about is a “totalitarian” theocracy. Therefore, if we are to believe what reaverman said and we can assume that he understands the context of the discussion, then he believes that the US’s form of government is tantamount to totalitarianism. It’s plain as day.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn, are you saying a Corporate Aristocracy IS a totalitarian state?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
That is some weird-ass logic you've got goin' there
. If I say that rape and murder are equally bad, does that mean that I am saying that they are the same thing? No. Things being equally right or equally wrong does not mean that they are exactly the same. What I was saying was that being run by crazed religious regimes and being run by cold, calculating businessmen are both bad.
Maybe you need to think a little more before you type (jeez, and you say I'm ruining my credibility).
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
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Finn: Because nobody is going to blow up (bomb, shoot, or stab) people for what the perp believes is a morally inferior goal (unless of course you're a sociopathic sack of crap who simply uses nice-sounding words to mask sheer greed) can we please set aside the discussion of goals.... everyone's got a good one... and focus on means?
Terrorism is the process in which one advances a political goal by inducing a state of fear in the non-combatant population through violence. Terrorists believe that their goals justify ANY means. Finn believes that HIS goals justiy ANY means. Bush believes that HIS goals justify ANY means. And when other means are available....
Does it really matter if Germany did it first? 
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:I never said you did say they were exactly the same, did I? I said you are equating them, which you are, aren’t you? You’re claiming that the US federal democratic republic is tantamount to a totalitarian theocracy? You are saying they are equivalent, in the same way that someone might say that rape and murder are equivalent, so therefore you saying that the US is tantamount to totalitarianism. Essentially, your argument is intellectually dishonest. You’re trying to get away with accusing the US of being totalitarian, without taking responsibility for that accusation, because you know you can’t defend that point. And yes, it damages your credibility.
Originally posted by reaverman:
That is some weird-ass logic you've got goin' there
Things being equally right or equally wrong does not mean that they are exactly the same. What I was saying was that being run by crazed religious regimes and being run by cold, calculating businessmen are both bad.
Maybe you need to think a little more before you type (jeez, and you say I am ruining my credibility).
Quote:The destruction of Israel and the establishment of a totalitarian theocracy are “good” goals? If that's what you really believe that would seem to say a lot about where you stand, doesn’t it?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn: Because nobody is going to blow up (bomb, shoot, or stab) people for what the perp believes is a morally inferior goal (unless of course you're a sociopathic sack of crap who simply uses nice-sounding words to mask sheer greed) can we please set aside the discussion of goals.... everyone's got a good one... and focus on means?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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