Revolvers In Space

POSTED BY: TinyTimm
UPDATED: Thursday, May 27, 2004 02:56
VIEWED: 5844
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TINYTIMM

Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:52 PM

Having consulted my "Traveler" TM Handbook and other sources the use of a revolver in space makes considerable sense.

The advantage of a revolver over other weapons is it's flexibility of ammunition. I can take a common revolver, say a Ruger .357 GP-100, http://www.ruger-firearms.com/rvmedium.html
and load it with, a wax bullet in a .38 Special case(used for target practice in the living room), a bird shot cartridge, in a plastic capsule loaded into a .357 magnum case (used for short range snake defense), a 148 grain wadcutter (used for target practice), a 130 grain jacket bullet round (issued by the US Army for compliance with various policies), and a 158 grain lead hollow point bullet in a .357 magnum case (used by many Police agencies).

I can fire all these from the same weapon, one after another and hit a target at 15 feet, with varable effects on the target. There are all sorts of exotic ammunition available for the revolver including the famous "short stop" round, which was a piece of high strength nylon cloth with bird shot (small lead pellets) glued to it. When fired it had devastating effects at a few feet, but if the Sky Marshall firing it missed and hit the internal wall of an airliner, it wouldn't have any effect on the fusilage.

The game "Traveler" TM proposed the use of all sorts of SF ordnance which could be launched from a revolver.

So, it isn't as silly as it may sound at first.

Jeff
Who has fired a revolver or so during his time on earth.

COMMONSENSEMAN

Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:57 PM

Well they indeed do use guns in Firefly but I am not so sure they are the standard Revolver as you would imagine.

A close up of Mal's gun reveals it lookes just like a revolver but it has no cylinder, and after seeing an episode where he shoots it I never saw him reload.

But that proves nothing.

I will have to go back and check out the episode again closer as they do have a ragging gun fight at one point.

Out.................

All are welcome at http://theannex.curvedspaces.com

COMMONSENSEMAN

Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:19 PM

Well I tried to update my previous post but it was having none of that so I will just post it here.

Okay I went back and took a closer look at the episode I saw and here are my observations.

As I said Mal's gun no cylinder and he has no ammo on his gun belt, he never reloads but is only shown shooting 5 shots in a row in one continuous scene, so technically he did not have a need to reload.

Zoe has a rifle and a revolver her revolver does have a cylinder and she has about 8-10 shells on her belt, but she is only shown using the rifle and she never reloads.

Jayne has a modern looking revolver with a cylinder but the holes in the cylinder (the ones you see when you look straight at the gun) are about half the size of a pea so the shells would be tiny. He has not ammo on his belt either.

Jayne is shown using a sniper rifle that is a breech loader and he does expel a shell at one point but it does not show him loading another, even though he fires the rifle more than once.

They show others with ammo belts on but no one is shown reloading. And other than the shell that Jayne expells no other used shells are shown.

At one point a character uses a automatic with a visible hole for the shell to be expelled, but when he fires there is no spent shell or sound effect of a shell hitting the floor.

So you guess is as good a mine on this one I think Joss is using a variety of different scenerios which would be logical as only the Alliance or people with money would have the more advanced weapons.

Out.................

All are welcome at http://theannex.curvedspaces.com

ZICSOFT

Sunday, July 28, 2002 10:33 PM

The "policies" Jeff refers to is the Geneva Convention, which forbids military use of small-arms bullets beyond a certain weight and also bullets that expand on impact. Domestic organizations, such as police departments, are not bound by this treaty. This little bit of irony is, of course, the source of the movie title Full Metal Jacket

I'm not a weapons expert, but I'm told that the M-16 exploits a loophole in these rules -- the absence of a limit on the velocity of bullets. M-16 rounds are relatively small, but fly so fast they have the stopping power of heavier rounds. They also generate a sonic boom that makes even a near miss dangerous.

Anyway, the "short stop" rounds Jeff mentions strike me as particularly appropriate for spaceship boarding actions. Wonder if we'll hear them mentioned on the show?

Hmm, used to know a guy who had served on nuclear subs. He was part of the "repel boarders" team. Never thought to ask him what kind of weapons they used.

TINYTIMM

Monday, July 29, 2002 9:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
The "policies" Jeff refers to is the Geneva Convention, which forbids military use of small-arms bullets beyond a certain weight and also bullets that expand on impact.

Its not nearly that simple. The "full metal jacket" rule was actually German Propaganda. They had to use FMJs to function in their Semi-auto Lugers, therefore they launched a propaganda attack on the Brits and French who used lead bullet revolvers in both wars. A sidearm is strictly emergency kit and largly irrelevant in war. If you know you are heading into trouble you bring a rifle, as the most adaptable and effective weapon one person can handle.

Quote:

I'm not a weapons expert, but I'm told that the M-16 exploits a loophole in these rules -- the absence of a limit on the velocity of bullets. M-16 rounds are relatively small, but fly so fast they have the stopping power of heavier rounds. They also generate a sonic boom that makes even a near miss dangerous.

You've been listening to the wrong people. M-16 rounds have been found in actual shooting tests on pigs, by the Swedish Government (who heard the same propaganda you did, don't feel bad ;->), to have roughly the same wounding effect as 9mm pistol rounds out of a submachinegun. Having worked the butts (a ditch where targets are prepared and scored) down range the sonic boom effect is quite easily handled by earplugs. The Sweds adopted the 5.56 round after the tests.

The Geneva and Hague conventions only restrict ammunition designed to inflict suffering, and limit a few other practices, hopefully someone will obey most of them someday.

Jeff
Who had to attend "Law of Land Warfare" briefings once or twice a year for nine years. And who never felt disadvantaged carrying the M-16A1, of course the 40mm Grenade launcher under the barrel helped. ;->

TINYTIMM

Monday, August 19, 2002 8:57 PM

Just studied the long trailer for FF.

Zoe has herself an old cut down .44-40 Winchester. If it's the same source it might even be the one Nick Adams carried in "The Rebel."

Jeff
Who prefers pistols to be pistols and rifles to be rifles (or carbines)

ZICSOFT

Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TinyTimm:
Just studied the long trailer for FF.

Zoe has herself an old cut down .44-40 Winchester. If it's the same source it might even be the one Nick Adams carried in "The Rebel."

Jeff
Who prefers pistols to be pistols and rifles to be rifles (or carbines)

As long as you're in gun curator mode, have a look at the revolver behind handled 2/3 through this video:

http://www.fox.com/firefly/video/goodies.mov

Is that something that actually exists in the present day? And do you know anything about the tools on the table in the background? Back up the video about 30 secs for a closeup.

TINYTIMM

Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
As long as you're in gun curator mode, have a look at the revolver behind handled 2/3 through this video:

http://www.fox.com/firefly/video/goodies.mov

Is that something that actually exists in the present day?

One of the tools on the table was the Winchester cut down rifle I mentioned earlier. The revolver being handled looked like a civil war era Hopkins and Allen cap and ball revolver, with a pivoting sheet steel cover added, along with a CO2 cartridge from a Crossman pellet gun and a modern "universal" mount added to the barrel. The mount allows clamping on of optics, illuminators and other accessories.

The long thing with the red button looks like one of those silly collapsing pole arms that were popular amoung the criminals of my youth. One item looked like an old fashioned Hypodermic needle like I saw at the Smithsonian a while back.

The long item loosely coiled looked like a short toilet snake or a fiber optic gizmo for viewing inside stuff. The large number of items with pointy ends remind me of projectiles w/o cartridge cases. Other than that nothing looked familiar.

Jeff
Who is a sucker for tech-museums everywhere. The USS Cod closes Labor Day in Cleveland.

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 3:03 PM

Civil War? That's funny. My first reaction to that pistol was that it was some kind of futuristic weapon designed with a retro look.

Hey, been to the Exploritorium in San Francisco? Actually more science than technology, but hands-on interaction is encouraged. And the whole place has a rough-edges feel that makes the techno-geek feel at home.

ZICSOFT

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 3:07 PM

Haken, "update post" is broken!

Civil War? That's funny. My first reaction to that pistol was that it was some kind of futuristic weapon designed with a retro look.

I'm betting that the hypo is exactly what it looks like. Hard to get disposable needles 100 light years from Johnson and Johnson.

Never been to the Smithsonian. Probably just as well -- if I ever went into a place like that, I'd never be able to leave!

Hey, been to the Exploritorium in San Francisco? Actually more science than technology, but hands-on interaction is encouraged. And the whole place has a rough-edges feel that makes the techno-geek feel at home.

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