Why won't the British media just get over it?
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Friday, June 7, 2024 18:43
VIEWED: 8774
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Thank you so very much for quoting Fawlty Towers.
That is all.
__________________
Wife soup!
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I'm afraid the Germans will be associated with Nazism for a long, long time. It's unjust. It's rude.
You might also note that people who have unjust or racist worldviews are referred to as Nazis, even though they have nothing to do with that old German political party. Rediculous, isn't it?
But take a page from history.
In Spanish, Mongolico is an insult referring to a stupid person.
In English, just one generation ago, the term Mongolian referred to someone with Down's syndrome.
Mongolian? Are we kidding, here?
In the 1200's, a bunch of 'barbarians' called Mongolians swept through much of Europe and made a lot of people very unhappy.
So 'stupid barbaric individual' got turned into Mongolian. Eventually anyone stupid was Mongolian. It's been over 700 years, and we still have the term.
How's that for a grudge that won't die?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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The idea that because Germany lost, everyone within abandoned the ethics and beliefs of Nazism is naive to the extreme. To quote someone: "May have been the losing side. Not sure it was the wrong one."
The "Mongoid" jibe is obviously unjust but thankfully has now been relegated to a quirk of etymology.
Let's take a man who guards a camp where thousands of people die every day, simply for being Jewish. He does this job for years, never questioning, never challeging, always supporting the party that organises this act of genocide. His wife is a member of the party too and helps take part in the war effort that has so far overrun over a dozen countries that had offered no direct threat to her own nation.
They have three children.
What sort of children do monsters raise?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Let's take a man who guards a camp where thousands of people die every day, simply for being Jewish. He does this job for years, never questioning, never challeging, always supporting the party that organises this act of genocide. His wife is a member of the party too and helps take part in the war effort that has so far overrun over a dozen countries that had offered no direct threat to her own nation.
They have three children.
What sort of children do monsters raise?
Would you mind telling me what your point is with this remark? I want to be clear about it before I respond to it.
Just on a sidenote, it's not like most guards at concentration camps had a choice. Had they challenged what's going on or refused to do their job, they would have been demoted (if they were lucky), but usually seen as a traitor and incarcerated, or maybe even executed. Don't mistake "follow orders or die" with not having a moral objection to something.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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It doesn't mention the holocaust though and seems to focus on old football rivalries instead. Personally I wouldn't find it surprising to see a very similar article about any other nations' leader - the British media often go after the French, for example - not because of any post-war bitterness but simply because that's the way we are.
Did that make sense?
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Flawed Logic.
What sort of children do Monsters raise? Well, Monsters, of course!
Let's take the United States, for instance, and our 'Indian' (Native American) friends.
Indians are on territory the United States covets, so the Indians are relocated. They are relocated by the military. The military escorts the Indians on a thousand-plus mile march. Many Indians die enroute. US soldiers watch them die, knowing that their relocation is unjust, that their way of life is being destroyed, and that a significant percentage of their population is being obliterated.
The US soldiers who knew this, and participated in the relocation, they are clearly monsters.
What sort of children do Monsters raise?
Might want to look into your own history before you decide that Monsters breed Monsters. Or even before you decide what the apellation 'Monster' really is.
All of us have 'Monsters' in our pasts. Most of us can find those Monsters just a few generations distant.
Are we all Monsters, then?
What do they say about Glass Houses?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Iccledames:
It wasn't that article (the one by the Sun) I was complaining about, I was unhappy about what the last sentence of the BBC article predicts is going to happen:
Quote:
The Sun pictures of Angela Merkel look like the preliminary round in what is likely to be a series of British tabloid stories mocking the Germans in the run-up to the World Cup, being held in Germany this summer, most referring one way or another to World War II.
And this type of mocking is not just what probably is going to happen, it's been around for a while (it seems to come and go in phases, mostly when England is about to clash with Germany in a soccer match), and it's something that bothers me a lot, namely that the British media (even if it's only the tabloids), seems to take great pleasure out of making jokes about WWII, and mostly in the form of Nazi references, when it comes to making fun of Germans. I lived in Germany for a year and believe me, there are many ways, and far more apt ways, of making fun of Germans without being really hurtful and crude towards them by making jokes about WWII.
AnthonyT:
That's the logic I thought he was trying to apply but I wanted to give him a chance to think about it and maybe reconsider, since my response to it is far less than charitable.
His logic seems to be: (Germans during WWII were monsters) & (monsters beget monsters) => (Germans these days are monsters).
This is not only flawed for the reason you give, but incredibly narrow-minded and offensive (hell, I'm offended and I'm not even German). But I first want to hear his response to see if that's really what he meant before I call him a cunt.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Would you mind telling me what your point is with this remark? I want to be clear about it before I respond to it.
Just on a sidenote, it's not like most guards at concentration camps had a choice. Had they challenged what's going on or refused to do their job, they would have been demoted (if they were lucky), but usually seen as a traitor and incarcerated, or maybe even executed. Don't mistake "follow orders or die" with not having a moral objection to something.
Every human being has a choice. If you tell me to help kill 1000 innocent people, even under the threat of death, I would refuse. I am not a murderer and I would rather die, or rather, I'd choose to fight. You're seriously suggesting that it was all right for concentration camp guards to help with mass slaughter for fear of being demoted?
And my point was quite simple. What sort of children do monsters raise? What lessons do they teach about right and wrong? What attitudes will their children have to the world?
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It appears that Simonwho is descended from a remarkable race of people who never did anything Monstrous, but were rather deposited on this Earth by a benevolent being who created and maintained them as perfect entities of light and justice.
Because otherwise, by Simonwho's logic, anyone in his past who was involved in Monstrosity (or even did nothing to prevent a Monstrosity occuring around them) are themselves Monsters, and they begat Monsters, and Simonwho is a Monster today.
What a Mongolian!
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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You know, this is a discussion forum. If you believe that there's no link between the generation of Germany 60 years ago and today's Germany, argue the case. Make a coherent set of points such as:
1) The vast majority of Germans had turned against the Nazi ideology by 1945.
2) Post-war Germany deliberately wiped out all traces of Nazism as far as they were able to.
3) There are numerous laws in place to restrict any growth of Nazism, including the banning of Nazi memorabilia, the Swastika in visual media and publication of Nazi documents.
4) Germany has been one of the great democratic influences in Eastern Europe, bringing true power to the people.
5) Germany has also been instrumental in the European Union, ensuring peaceful coexistence among nations.
I'm sure you can think of many others. But if you can't be bothered, if you'd rather just throw insults around, I'm not going to play devil's advocate with you anymore.
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