The Dixie Chicks
POSTED BY: GinoBiffaroni
UPDATED: Friday, May 12, 2006 23:07
VIEWED: 12782
PAGE 2 of 4
Quote:
You can buy or not buy whatever you want, but if they want to speak out against something they feel is wrong...
Do you think they should not have that right ?
Do you think threats, ranting, and burning of CD's over a difference of opinion is what your country is all about ?
Just who are you including into your " we won't buy " ?
Did you NOT read what I just posted ? Hell, you copied my post, but I don't think you read what was written. How could you have missed what I said?
me -> They can tell anyone they want to fuck off, and we'll just not buy their music. It's that simple. Note the words I used, and how I put them together. THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT, AND IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, WE CAN CHOOSE NOT TO BUY THEIR MUSIC! It's really that simple. I even SAID it was that simple. There, I said it again! ( I hope you read this before you decide to cut/past again )
Now, where did you get the idea in your noggin that I wanted to deprive anyone of their rights? How can you read my words, and then process that info in your brain and still have any question that I might want to limit anyone's freedom of speech? How do you even get from A to B ??
Just who are you including into your " we won't buy " ? You want a list ? Why would you even care? Are you going to go out and buy several copies to counter my NOT buying just one ? Fine by me! I hope you do. But wait, you don't know what artist / actors, etc I'm not buying. Hmmm....guess you'd better start buying up ALL of the DVDs, CDs and concert tickets you can, just to cover all your bases!
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Gino’s comments reminded me of how this whole controversy played out. The Dixie Chicks made some statement which offended their fans who in return responded with their own set of statements, which in many cases meant no longer being fans. This was a perfect example of how freedom of speech is supposed to work. That should have ended it. Everyone should be happy, at least with regard to freedom of speech.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did you NOT read what I just posted ? Hell, you copied my post, but I don't think you read what was written. How could you have missed what I said?
me -> They can tell anyone they want to fuck off, and we'll just not buy their music. It's that simple. Note the words I used, and how I put them together. THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT, AND IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, WE CAN CHOOSE NOT TO BUY THEIR MUSIC! It's really that simple. I even SAID it was that simple. There, I said it again! ( I hope you read this before you decide to cut/past again )
Now, where did you get the idea in your noggin that I wanted to deprive anyone of their rights? How can you read my words, and then process that info in your brain and still have any question that I might want to limit anyone's freedom of speech? How do you even get from A to B ??
However, the pro-Dixie Chick camp (i.e. generally fanatical Bush critics who usurped the debate for their own agenda) often twisted the argument to be that the Dixie Chicks not only had a right to speak their point of view, but also the right to do so without any response from those that disagree with them. What I remember thinking is that this controversy basically demonstrated how little respect these people, who hid behind freedom of speech, actually have for freedom of speech.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
This is a great assessment of the backlash of anger that occured due to the Dixie Chick's comments. You're right though, it wasn't so much a freedom of speech issue. It was a blind patriotism issue, and sad commentary on the petty and insecure sense of pride that many Americans feel these days.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:That’s your assessment, and it’s debatable, but regardless, fans of the Dixie Chicks have as much right to their opinion as the Dixie Chicks did. Attacking the character of people who choose not to be fans of the Dixie Chicks is no better or mature then attacking the character of the Dixie Chicks for their opinion.
Originally posted by SergeantX:
This is a great assessment of the backlash of anger that occured due to the Dixie Chick's comments. You're right though, it wasn't so much a freedom of speech issue. It was a blind patriotism issue, and sad commentary on the petty and insecure sense of pride that many Americans feel these days.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
It was a blind patriotism issue, and sad commentary on the petty and insecure sense of pride that many Americans feel these days.
SergeantX
Where is the blind patriotism? That doesn't even make any sense. Please elaborate.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'll take a guess at the blind patriotism.
George Bush has proven time and again just about everything the Dixie Chicks were saying.
Yet you still don't agree with any of it, because...
I'll take another guess. Their message was, in your estimation, 'anti-american', but how Mccarthyite can you get?
It's American to have an opinion. It's American to be able to criticize your government. It's American to police your own damned officials and not to just assume that corruption by your own party is 'unthinkable.' You should never stop thinking it, and you should never accuse people who criticize government of anti-americanism, unless truly, you want to help to erode dissenting voices in this country.
That's what our country exists for and by.
Blind Patriotim is a direct attack on that. When you somehow muddle a political attack on our government policies and extend that attack to our troops and our country. That's nationalistic drivel, and if people want to go down that road of Government worship, then how the hell are you going to continue to distinguish us from any other country?
Government criticism, especially in a time of war isn't hate. It's love. Love for the values we think America is supposed to stand for, and when we see those values getting cast aside, it's our duty as Americans to voice our concerns.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Finn,
your memory is lacking.
This story was all day news on every news station. It was a national scandal, and that's what the rest of us were raliing against....the absurdity of your witch hunt...this wasn't a matter of just record sales and people speaking with their dollars. It was a matter of the media painting the Dixie Chicks as Traitors. Do we really have to revisit the equivalent of the red scare every few decades in this country? Jesus, no wonder its so easy to do. We Have no long term memory. "Mcarthyism? What's that?"
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
You can buy or not buy whatever you want, but if they want to speak out against something they feel is wrong...
Do you think they should not have that right ?
Do you think threats, ranting, and burning of CD's over a difference of opinion is what your country is all about ?
Just who are you including into your " we won't buy " ?
Did you NOT read what I just posted ? Hell, you copied my post, but I don't think you read what was written. How could you have missed what I said?
me -> They can tell anyone they want to fuck off, and we'll just not buy their music. It's that simple. Note the words I used, and how I put them together. THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT, AND IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, WE CAN CHOOSE NOT TO BUY THEIR MUSIC! It's really that simple. I even SAID it was that simple. There, I said it again! ( I hope you read this before you decide to cut/past again )
Now, where did you get the idea in your noggin that I wanted to deprive anyone of their rights? How can you read my words, and then process that info in your brain and still have any question that I might want to limit anyone's freedom of speech? How do you even get from A to B ??
Just who are you including into your " we won't buy " ? You want a list ? Why would you even care? Are you going to go out and buy several copies to counter my NOT buying just one ? Fine by me! I hope you do. But wait, you don't know what artist / actors, etc I'm not buying. Hmmm....guess you'd better start buying up ALL of the DVDs, CDs and concert tickets you can, just to cover all your bases!
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
I'm sorry, I read a short review of the book you pointed out and it lead me to the conclusion the author feels that anyone who doesn't think the way she does is not welcome to have an opinion in " Her America ", just because you pointed the book out it was unfair of me to assume you felt the same way, I apologize...
I was going to start making comparisions between that viewpoint and censorship in China, and how fuuny it is that many of the people whp preach these ideas in the US have a real hard on for tough anti China policy... but you have made it clear we actually agree more so on this point than the author of that book.
Oh, and the we thing... I was having a similar disagreement with someone else who kept saying " we " and I asked, as I asked you and the response I got was " any real American "... so by extention I asked if that meant if anyone disagreed with him they weren't " real Americans " and so on.
Just trying to be clear
I guess part of the question is where one can draw the line how far one can go to protest policy, my feeling is publicly speaking out is good, debate is healthy ( as long as it is respected ) the other side of the line is for example when US soldiers were called babykillers and spat upon by protesters.... that sort of action can and should not be tolerated. I can respect people plotting civil war and overthrow of a government more so that crap like that.
So where do you feel the lines should be drawn ? where does the right to protest policy come up against both the states right to preserve order and anothers individual right to disagree with the protestor ?
" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "
The Killers
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Finn,
your memory is lacking.
This story was all day news on every news station. It was a national scandal, and that's what the rest of us were raliing against....the absurdity of your witch hunt...this wasn't a matter of just record sales and people speaking with their dollars. It was a matter of the media painting the Dixie Chicks as Traitors. Do we really have to revisit the equivalent of the red scare every few decades in this country? Jesus, no wonder its so easy to do. We Have no long term memory. "Mcarthyism? What's that?"
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
The banning of artists on radio stations, etc is along way from letting the public decide the issue with their money... I wasn't really all that familar with McCarthy and all not being from the US myself, but after watching Clooneys Good Night and Good Luck their were some really strange parawells. I remember wondering at the time whether the script was slanted to highlight current day McCarthy like crap or whether everything went down just like the movie.
" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "
The Killers
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Gino’s comments reminded me of how this whole controversy played out. The Dixie Chicks made some statement which offended their fans who in return responded with their own set of statements, which in many cases meant no longer being fans. This was a perfect example of how freedom of speech is supposed to work. That should have ended it. Everyone should be happy, at least with regard to freedom of speech.
However, the pro-Dixie Chick camp (i.e. generally fanatical Bush critics who usurped the debate for their own agenda) often twisted the argument to be that the Dixie Chicks not only had a right to speak their point of view, but also the right to do so without any response from those that disagree with them. What I remember thinking is that this controversy basically demonstrated how little respect these people, who hid behind freedom of speech, actually have for freedom of speech.
I love how you twist it so it was only the Chicks and their fans' fault. I'm no fan of country music, or them, so let me clear that up before I get called as one of their loyal fanbase.
Had they made their criticism, and lost fans, as you state, it should have ended there. But you take issue with lefties corrupting their message without taking issue with what this song refers to - the fact that when they made the comments, they got death threats from the right-wing side of the aisle. I heard an interview with Natalie Maines (sp?) on the radio, and that's what the new song refers to. They were blacklisted from country radio (which should never have happened) and had threats made against the lives of their families. Instead of saying, 'hey, we respect your right to say things we don't agree with,' they were called traitors or worse.
So take the liberal bash somewhere else, because two sides were guilty here, not just one. Republicans are just as guilty of hiding behind hate speech as any Dems are.
------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME