Book's line in Objects in Space?

Book can't be an alliance operative, acting or retired.

If he had been then the Alliance Ship would NOT have operated on his wound in Safe. Think about that for a moment.

If he's an operative, than the Alliance could not risk giving him any special treatment specifically BECAUSE it would prove he was an operative. Book's not always the bravest, but he's far from a coward, and he wouldn't have revealed the ID Badge if that were the case. As in Mission Impossible, the Alliance "would disavow any involvement" in his actions and that means treating him like a regular joe when he's been shot.

So Book is no operative or working stiff of the Alliance, by my reasoning. I'd hate it if he were, Book an antagonist? No way.

I do get the feeling the line in Objects In Space was another teaser about Book's past. We probably don't know all of the facts necessary to paint the complete picture of what it means.

If Book is referring to Jayne, then it contradicts his behavior when he's around Jayne. When they're not on opposite ends of a moral spectrum (IE Jayne wanting to kill the mole in the Pilot and Book stopping him) they make a good pair. They work out together and generally get along better than most members of the crew to Jayne. If this line does refer to Jayne, then it suggests that all that bonding they do is an act and Book is purposely befriending Jayne for some reason.

The only problem with this theory is that if it were true Book would have certainly acted on it by now. Had he, for example, been sent to kill Jayne then he'd have done it sooner and not, as per the BDM, leave the ship to live in Haven and ultimately get bombed.

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Hi
I was thinking about what shogun said, that they may have been training river to be an oprative. Not only is it possible but it's logical, which in my mind is far more frightening. There is the possibility that operatives carry out assasinations. Some places, like Canton, do not allow guns (although they seem to be fine with bowie knives). An operative could kill someone without a weapon, but that would narrow down the possible suspects since not everyone can kill a guy with thier bare hands. First, we know that river could kill anyone she wants with here bare hands. The fact that she is a 19 year old girl means that she would be able to move about un-noticed and if she did kill someone with nothing but her hand, who in their right mind would suspect River when you've got a huge guy like Jayne Cobb in the area. Next, suppose that she couldn't get close enough to the target to use her hands, she is a pretty good shot with Jayne's Deasert Eagle, as seen in "War Stories". But if she had a gun it would ruin her cover. I mean, what would you think if you saw a teanage girl with a huge .50 callibre semi-automatic pistol? The sweet part of the set-up is that she doesn't need a weapon or her martial arts training to kill someone. In "Trash", Simon is fixing up Jayne while telling him that there in the same side and they shouldn't have to each sleep with one eye open. After Simon leaves River, who had been just inside the door the whole time, says " Plus, I can kill you with my brain." The point I'm making is that river is the perfect assasin. Mal could open up his own assasination business if he ever got tired of smugling. Oh, and did I mention that suposedly over 80% of the contract killers and hired assasins in the world are women! just making a point.


As far as Jayne seeing through Book's cover, it makes perfect sence. Someone once said "The best place to hide something is in plain sight". If they ever suspected book of being an operative someone, probably Jayne, would say that he didn't do a great job of hiding it so there's no way he can be clever enough to be an aliance operative. Well, during the cold war thegreatest compliment that could be given to a CIA agent working in Russia was " Who, him. No, he's not smart enough to be a spy." Just thought I'd leave some food for thought.

[Frank Drebin is emptying out his files after being kicked off the force]
Frank: Hey! The missing evidence in the Kelner case! My God, he really was innocent!
Ed: He went to the chair two years ago, Frank.
Frank: Well, uh...
[Frank Drebin quickly shoves the evidence back into the file cabinet]

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I've only seen the episode once (SHOCK! HORROR! I'll get right on fixing that ) and I remember thinking that the statement was directed at Jayne.

I thought at the time that it was supposed to reveal that a lot of Book's Shepherd nature is a facade... not necessarily his kindness, but his efforts to save the crew in a moral sense. By saying that he doesn't care if Jayne is innocent or not, he's sorta indicating that he doesn't give a damn about saving Jayne's soul or anyone else's. THat doesn't necessarily mean that he dislikes Jayne, only that his "good will" and "guidance" does not run as deep as it seems to. A true Shepherd WOULD care about whether someone is innocent or not, and try to "save" them; hence why the rhetorical question, "and where does that leave you?" is chilling, he's basically saying he doesn't care if Jayne is going to the special hell.

Having said that, that was a mere brainfart. I also like all the other suggestions that are being put forward.



"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Everyone's had some really great reponses so far. Once more proving that Browncoats are the smartest people in the verse.

That being said, I was wondering: Does anyone know what Joss has to say on the subject? Maybe there's something in the DVD commentary about it? Just a thought.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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I definitely think that comment was directed at Jayne as well, and River's shock to it was that it seemed that Book didn't care. Book always preached a caring chorus, but he seemed cold and uncaring at that moment. River also most likely sees his secret as well, but doesn't bust him out because she knows he is atoning for something.

The Operative - Book connection makes sense. Book's comments about how an Operative is trained to believe blindly, leads me to sumise that Book was an Operative as well.

Book most likely leaves because of a crisis of conscience similar to what The Operative had. The reason he goes to religion is twofold:

1. It gives him the chance to do some good works, and..
2. It more closely resembles the life he just left. Primarily due to the fact that religion requires no proof, just a belief. Much like he had as an Operative. The belief that he was making "a better world. All of them...better worlds".

Not to start a religious debate, but that's the way I see it.

BTW, when I met Ron Glass at GenCon last year, he had no idea what Book's secret was. According to him, "It's all locked up in Joss's head".

--------------------------------------------------
Child One: "Republicans aren't real."
Child Two: "Full well they are!"

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Leebo:
Book can't be an alliance operative, acting or retired.

If he had been then the Alliance Ship would NOT have operated on his wound in Safe. Think about that for a moment.

If he's an operative, than the Alliance could not risk giving him any special treatment specifically BECAUSE it would prove he was an operative. Book's not always the bravest, but he's far from a coward, and he wouldn't have revealed the ID Badge if that were the case. As in Mission Impossible, the Alliance "would disavow any involvement" in his actions and that means treating him like a regular joe when he's been shot.

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I agree, an operative would not be permitted to just go his own way, as evidenced by Chiwetel Ejiofor's parting line in the BDM. Yet, this circumstance makes Book all that more intriguing, as he knows exactly what kind of trouble an operative can be, "trouble you've not known." My guess is not too many people wander around with that kind of knowledge.

"Yolanda?"

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Wow, this has been a great thread to read. I'm just going to put my own thoughts out there now:
I'm not sure if Book's line was really *directed* at anyone, per se. It struck me as just being a general statement. Kind of "whether you're innocent or not you're still likely to go to hell" hence, not caring if someone was innocent, etc. That point was pretty much made earlier on, but I don't think it was even specific to Jayne, just kind of the attitude Book had. Whether that line itself had anything to do with his shady past is debatable; I've met a few preachers who don't seem to think anyone is innocent and don't care.
I'm also glad I'm not the only one who thinks Book was an Operative in his past. "Sort of man they like to send believes hard" really made it seem like a transition to believing hard in religion rather than government would be easiest for those retiring from the life. Plus his uncanny military skills and Early's comment on him later. I can really see how the character of Early evolved into the Operative and how the character of the Operative could then evolve into Book. Of course Joss ulitimately made the decision not to tell us Book's background in the BDM, so we may never know what's locked in his head, but that's how I see it. And it makes sense that Early was possibly an Operative himself, or at least had some of the same training, as he was highly intuitive and kind of creepy. The only line between him and River was that he was more malicious with his skills; he "liked to hurt folk" whereas River did not. And maybe River was being made into an Operative, too. Or an upgraded Operative, as the Operative himself didn't quite have her abilities, he just believed hard.
And I'll just throw this out there, too: I don't think the Alliance would deny him medical help if he was an Operative. For one thing, it wouldn't really give anything away as people outside the government don't even know they exist. For another thing, it probably didn't say "this man is an Operative" it probably said something like "this man ranks so high you can't even know what he is, but you had better respect his authority" and no soldier on a flying base is going to question that.
Wow, I've rambled on. I'll stop now.

*************************************************
Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.

Zhu fu ni, mei-mei

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Quote:

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the part where Simaon says "So you're Alliance" and Jubal thinks he says "You're a lion," how many times have you ever seen something like that happen in scripted dialogue? I'm guessing never. It had no real purpose, just one of those little things that blows me away about the way these shows are written.

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That is one of the main reasons I love whedon's work. the dialogue is real, it doesn't feel scripted.

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