Buffy vs. River
POSTED BY: VoshExeter
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 9, 2006 02:30
VIEWED: 10879
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Okay. I'm a Firefly fan first and foremost. But, getting sucked in to the Joss Universe, I've also just started getting into Buffy. Chances are its already been debated before, but does any one have any thoughts on who would win in a fight between Buffy and River. 
This is totally trivial I realize. I don't think we can even start talking about this until River subconciously channels into her inner trained warrior. Buffy has an advantage in that she's coherent and controls her training. But what if Buffy suddenly pissed River off and stumbled onto River's battle mode? Battles of epic proportions would most likely follow. Any thoughts? Feelings? Insights? Again, I'm new to the Buffy verse, no question. Were there ever any characters in Buffy which were similiar to River?
"The river is wide. I cannot cross."
voshExeter
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I think it truly would be a very interesting fight to watch.
River might win, if Buffy got caught in the moral ambiguity of the fight. River is human after all.
Moral ambiguity aside, Buffy would eventually win, i think, due to her super strength and stamina.
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Its not stated but i think there is evidence that River has more than just training/programing.
Consider that she hasn't practiced, trained, worked out or even stretched for 8 months before the fight in the Maidenhead.
That she is able to perform at that level without regular physical conditioning suggests some level of physical/chemical enhancement.
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I think River would win because i believe a great deal of her fighting ability isn't strictly skill and strength although that does come naturally to her from her genius background but more cause she can read minds. She'd know what Buffy was gonna do before she did it. On the other hand Buffy being a more trained and practiced fighter could theoretically fight without thinking about it, but Buffy has said that she uses her emotions as an asset in a fight and I would think River could read that easily enough.
Anyways River's mind reading ability is also why i didn't find any of the fighting in Serenity hard to believe at all.
So i think it would be an interesting fight but i feel River would have a significant advantage although i think if Buffy knew ahead of time exactly what she was up against she could win but that kinda goes both ways and River can read minds so again i feel she has an advantage.
At that point though things can get very debatable i mean if you want to consider everything, like where the fight takes place or what verse it takes place in. Whether their friends can help. Things can get more and more complicated. Anybody can beat anybody under the right circumstances.
So that's my opinion. That being said i also don't like Buffy, i liked the show but i don't like Buffy. Doesn't effect my opinion at all but i thought everyone should know.
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The one argument that keeps coming up for River winning is the whole reading minds thing.
First off, we have no idea if she can actively do this. Secondly, if she can, we don't know to what extent she can. Third, how much energy/time does it take to do it? Fighting isn't exactly a look at the person for second/minutes to read there thoughts. It's a split second thing, otherwise you get hit.
But, assuming all this (Which is exactly what people are doing. Making gross assumptions and assuming further that they are fact.), Buffy has found creatures that could read minds before and won.
That and the fact that Buffy has the whole super-power thing going on, Buffy would win.
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"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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Well i feel River proved many times that she can actively read minds in combat and use it to her advantage between Firefly and Serenity so i didn't assume anything.
I don't remember Buffy fighting anything that could read minds and was it something that could read her mind in combat? I may have just forgotten.
Anyways regardless as i said it depends on circumstances. I could name a hundred scenarios where Buffy would win and then a hundred where River would win. Even without mind reading i could think of a buncha ways River could win although any straight fights would most likely go to Buffy in that case.
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I think River might be a slayer. She has just about every thing buffy has strength speed and agility. River being the creature of Extraordinary grace could be a nod to her being a Slayer. The mind reading for River Seems to take no time or energy for her to read minds. I think that the people at the Academy are trying to create an army of Reaver killers. So when you find a child of the grace and mind of River Tam you use it to the best of your ability. If she were a slayer wouldn't that be like hitting the once in a lifetime jackpot. For those who have read Fray I'll put the next statment in Spoiler speak.
Select to view spoiler:
Fray is a slayer and has lost the mental part of being a slayer. The dreams of past slayers fighting, what a vampire is, ect... So what if that part of a slayer is lost to all slayers to come after Fray.
So is it possible that River is a slayer? If she is than she is as strong as Buffy and if she can read minds as easy as we think then who would win? I think River would easily beat Buffy under those conditions.
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@Kaze:
That's exactly it! You feel. But, where in the eps (or movie for that matter) has she shown this ability.
The sad fact of the matter, is that the only place where she displayed this ability, is when she was in a room with Top Alliance brass, and accidentially gleaned something. That is the only point in which she read mind(s).
Remember OiS? When everyone was talking about River and she was below listening? Pratically, this is probably how she found out a lot of stuff.
How about when she was walking around? She didn't display any ability to control what she was getting.
Also, remember that conversation? Mal didn't even say that she could read minds. "Or near enough." was what he said.
Nothing was laid out in stone in the series and nothing was told in the movie either.
Re: Buffy:
It was in either season 2 or 3. The ep where she aquired the essense of the monster and gleaned the ability to read minds. Nearly drove her nuts.
@Dataless:
Everyone, including you says things like "mind reading for River Seems to take no time or energy for her to read minds". Yet there is no, in this scene, this is why I think that way.
Also, you are mixing worlds. There is no supernatural in Firefly. That was Buffy, this is Firefly. They are not the same.
In general, I find it interesting to see people say that they are not assuming anything, and then use phrases like, "it seems to me" and "I feel" in the discussion. It's rather contradictory.
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"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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Buffy uses a Kickboxing style, whereas River employs a kind of combat Tai-Chi combined with Wushu.
I feel River's superior style would make all the difference, and allow her to emerge victorious in the end.
Martial Arts expert Chrisisall
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Style seems to be unimportant. It is the ability to adapt that is important.
Remember the scene in Buffy when Spike killed the Kung-Fu slayer?
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"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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