Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.

POSTED BY: pastorbadger
UPDATED: Thursday, November 22, 2007 09:57
VIEWED: 83595
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BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
It was a Reaver ship. If you watch you the opening scenes you will see that the ship does not match the designs of any of the Alliance craft.

Buzzzzzzz! Oh, sorry but thank you for playing our game. Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you.

We'll ignore for the moment that you've somehow got a comprehensive set of schematics for all Alliance craft in service, including contractors and new, secret designs, and consider the reavers for a moment: They didn't make their ships! They cut up and uglified whatever was left on Miranda. Maybe what they can jack in the performance of their daily mayhem. A.k.a. Alliance ships. Any reaver ship must also be an Alliance design.

It's the lack of really skinny folk ridin' on the outside of the ship I use to make this call. Reavers aren't known for a quick run through the auto-wash before a big battle.

(I meant that to sound considerably less harsh, but forums don't carry tone, so I'll throw one of these in )

I am sorry my friend, but it is you that is wrong. I was on the development team for the game & YES we had access to the Alliance ship designs from the movie, and the ship that hits Serenity w/ the EMP is most definitely NOT an Alliance craft.

Your theory is interesting, but alas is based on erroneous information.

Hope that didn't sound harsh. It was not meant to be.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

MIKEC

Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:44 PM

the emp came from a reaver ship. wash is dead.

so the crew came back to serenity after the battle and wash was gone?

wash was a great guy but he's gone.

PASTORBADGER

Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I am sorry my friend, but it is you that is wrong. I was on the development team for the game & YES we had access to the Alliance ship designs from the movie, and the ship that hits Serenity w/ the EMP is most definitely NOT an Alliance craft.

Your theory is interesting, but alas is based on erroneous information.

Hope that didn't sound harsh. It was not meant to be.

I feel a powerful hankerin’ to be brusque again. ;) First of all, I'm never wrong. Just occasionally misinformed.

On to the point. There isn't one. To quote Jayne, "Don't matter what I said before." I've already relented that it doesn't matter if that ship was Alliance, the outcome doesn't change.

That said, of course it was an Alliance ship. That's a given. Reavers don't sit at drafting tables, work at shipyards or take courses at the local community college. Reavers don't lay keels. Therefore, all ships they fly were either left on Miranda or have been jacked since then. Even if it was full of reavers, it was an Alliance ship. Semantics aside, it’s a question is who’s fleet/pack was it party to.

It was also in the Alliance fleet, because reavers never, ever fly shiny new rides. They have, in every circumstance, conveyed themselves in seriously (cosmetically and mechanically) messed up ships. I doubt they’d lift off in a freshly jacked ride without throwing some mud on the tires. Are you suggesting the extremely unlikely proposal that this particular ship was captured moments before the big battle? “I smell a lot of ‘if’ commin’ offa this plan…”

You say you had access to ship schematics, then you know that animators will use the same template for a dozen rendered ships in a single scene, let alone a ship in two different scenes. If a game uses two disjoint sets of keels for reavers and Alliance, then they’ve flattened the ‘verse to two dimensions. (Not uncommon in a game translation.)

And what is it with the whole pack of you folks who seem to be plucking “an EMP beam is a reaver weapon” out of the gua pi? Feds use non-lethal weapons. Remember the stun rifles from “Ariel” and “Trash”?

I’ll say it again. Feds use non-lethal weapons (along with the lethal ones, to be clear). Reavers use harpoons or magnetic grapplers. Both are very low-tech and easy to maintain. Not subtle nor over-thought. You just watched a slew of reavers using those very harpoons not 30 seconds ago.

Yet it gets into your head that the shiny, clean ship with the high-tech beam weapon just has to be a reaver. “You have a problem with your brain bein’ missin’.”

(Sorry I had to go all Alliance on your pi ku, but “dead horse: good cover, live horse: great pile o’ panic.”)

Oh, and it still doesn't matter which of is is right on this point. ;P

PASTORBADGER

Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeC:
the emp came from a reaver ship. wash is dead.

Sure could be. We already know they ship dead folk via UPS in this 'verse. Could be next time Zoe makes mail call she gets a happy surprise. (C.O.D. for the mdical bills from the Alliance, of course.) The next movie will center on the Serenity crew's efforts to get enough scratch to get Wash's suspended body out of hock. vbg.

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeC:
so the crew came back to serenity after the battle and wash was gone?

O.K., now I'm waxing full-on cranky. Who posts a criticism to a forum when he hasn't even read the first post! "The crew returns to Serenity to find only bits of Wash and obvious signs of reaver activity. What would you assume? Even Kaylee believes he’s either gone, or in a reavers “Buffy” lunch box. Tears ensue."

Quote:
Originally posted by mikeC:
wash was a great guy but he's gone.

Unless mikeC is an anagram for JOSS, you'll forgive me if I don't just take that haughty proclamation as fact.

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pastorbadger:
That said, of course it was an Alliance ship. That's a given. Reavers don't sit at drafting tables, work at shipyards or take courses at the local community college. Reavers don't lay keels. Therefore, all ships they fly were either left on Miranda or have been jacked since then. Even if it was full of reavers, it was an Alliance ship. Semantics aside, it’s a question is who’s fleet/pack was it party to.

It was also in the Alliance fleet, because reavers never, ever fly shiny new rides. They have, in every circumstance, conveyed themselves in seriously (cosmetically and mechanically) messed up ships. I doubt they’d lift off in a freshly jacked ride without throwing some mud on the tires. Are you suggesting the extremely unlikely proposal that this particular ship was captured moments before the big battle? “I smell a lot of ‘if’ commin’ offa this plan…”

You say you had access to ship schematics, then you know that animators will use the same template for a dozen rendered ships in a single scene, let alone a ship in two different scenes. If a game uses two disjoint sets of keels for reavers and Alliance, then they’ve flattened the ‘verse to two dimensions. (Not uncommon in a game translation.)

Looks like you are "misinformed" again.

The Alliance is not the only producer of spacecraft in the 'verse. There are private ship builders, big corporations (Blue Sun), and other sources of space craft than just the Alliance. Assuming because it flies it must have been Alliance at some point is pure speculation.

Never said the ship was captured moments before the battle. Not even sure how you arrived at that from what I posted.

Actually there were many different types of vessels we looked at for the game. Don't be surprised if a forth coming supplement for the game show cases a bunch of different ships, Alliance and others.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

ZZETTA13

Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:29 PM

Ok how many times can we beat a dead horse, I mean Wash. 2052

Hes dead,hes not...dead...not.... the debate contiunes.

Joss,start the new series so we can stop this maddness.

It is fun though

to date the dead that have been brought back on the show, Tracy,Mal...... In the bonus material Joss has said that killing off Wash (and Book) was a good way to have people think that Simon was a gonner too in the scene behind the blast doors.Well I say " Joss,Thats no reason to kill off Wash Gorramit!!"

I don't know about the rest of you.But when those blast doors open and Miss Tam is standing there, weapons dripping. I can't help but think "Red River Sonja"

PASTORBADGER

Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
The Alliance is not the only producer of spacecraft in the 'verse. There are private ship builders, big corporations (Blue Sun), and other sources of space craft than just the Alliance. Assuming because it flies it must have been Alliance at some point is pure speculation.

When I say, "an American ship", I don't mean to say a ship built by the American government exclusively. In fact, it's all done by contractor now, so I wouldn't be surprised if all American ships weren't built by private companies, including recent warships.

When I say "an Alliance ship", I only mean to exclude those built by the Independence and then, only during the war.

Now, all ships are Alliance ships, excluding those built by cow fetuses. It's a semantic point, and means even less than the larger issue of who tagged Serenity first.

The important issue I stand behind, is that reavers don't build ships, and don't fly any particular model. There's probably some sorry, scraggly reaver who could only manage a Firefly transport. (Why else would Serenity have been able to sneak by in one. Eh? Eh? Think about THAT! (does the in-your–face dance)

(O.K., O.K., settle down now. Remember what your therapist said : It’s just a TV show…)

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Never said the ship was captured moments before the battle. Not even sure how you arrived at that from what I posted.

(raises voice) BECAUSE IT’S ALL PRETTY AND SHINY! I arrived at it from your post because you want us to believe it could possibly have been a reaver. If you want us to believe it was a reaver ship, it had to be ‘just’ captured, and then I still say they wouldn’t move on without putting enough “bravado” on the hull to avoid attack by fellow reavers.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Actually there were many different types of vessels we looked at for the game. Don't be surprised if a forth coming supplement for the game show cases a bunch of different ships, Alliance and others.

O.K., THAT I’m looking forward to. But if there aren’t any cows, can it still be a Firefly game? Never mind. Philosophical question. They won’t remember what they are in a game…

BENDAS

Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:02 PM

I hate to say it but your point is floored is O so many ways the fact they had Mr universe’s body and Shepard books (If you must know it was on the front of the ship) and the graves were all the same, and the way the feds work they wanted to kill the Tams so more of a shoot first and ask questions later

Bendas

ONLYME

Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:13 PM

Sorry to have to put my 2 cents in. I have been lurking for a long time, but this post made me jump in.

I am not sure why you are meeting the idea that Wash may be alive with such disdain. The theory put forward is entirely plausible.

I have seen Serenity roughly 25 times since I got the DVD. I have ALWAYS assumed that it was an Alliance ship that hit Serenity with an EMP. Reavers would have grappled or harpooned.

Bottom line is this - we don't know, most of us hope. The only person who will know is Joss when and if he gets the go ahead.

Find something else to argue about.

Sorry. I feel like I am in kindergarten sitting between 2 know-it-alls who won't budge.

Show me off like a dog, Old men covered in blood, never touched them but they're drowning in it

JOLLY

Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:29 PM

Serenity 2: Joss Repents

Opening scene
=============

(Zoe in Serenity's cargo hold, insuring everything is securely stored.)

Zoe (singing): "Take my love, take my land..."

(A shadowy figure emerges behind her and groans. Startled, Zoe spins and draws a gun. The camera focuses in and we see a man in rags covered in dirt from head to toe.)

Shadowy figure: "Honey, why did you bury me alive?"

(From the voice, we realize with Zoe that the figure is Wash!)

Zoe: "Wash! You were dead! There was a harpoon through your heart!"

Wash: "My heart was moved when I was kid. Result of a trampoline accident..."

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