Top Five Untrue Conspiracy Theories

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, April 9, 2006 07:19
VIEWED: 3644
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HERO

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
In other words our intelligence isn'nt ever accurate, and always lacking (in coloquial terms, it sucks), yet we continue to make major decisions based on it. That seem right to you?
Of course it does. America never makes a mistake that is her fault.

I think Rumsfeld said it best. You make the best decisions you can based upon what you know at the time.

Could intellegence have been better? Yes. But we gutted the human intellegence wing of the CIA in the '90s and cut their budget over and over again.

Could the military have been larger and better prepared? Yes. But we slashed troop level and defense budgets in the '90s.

None of this changes the fact that Saddam was a continuing threat to the United States. He just was very, very good at hiding the nature of his threat. His actions to undermine the UN and America's strategic alliances were a threat. His missile program was a threat. His increasing contact, support, and coordination with terrorists, including Al Queda, but more substantially with the various Palestinian groups...not to mention his efforts to restart his gutted WMD program. All of these things were a threat...now removed.

H

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

His actions to undermine the UN and America's strategic alliances were a threat. His missile program was a threat. His increasing contact, support, and coordination with terrorists, including Al Queda, but more substantially with the various Palestinian groups...not to mention his efforts to restart his gutted WMD program.
H

And...this all went on without our knowledge (we're stupid?)?
Or, we knew it was going on and did nothing (we're stupid)?
Or, we waited until after something like 911 to act on it (we're stupid)?

Hero, are you calling the American Government stupid???!

Or do you not understand the bigger picture Chrisisall

ERIC

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:59 PM

Saddam: Dictator of a SECULAR government.
Al Qaeda: ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST terrorists.

Oh yeah, definitely natural allies. Coordination and support all the way.

HERO

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And...this all went on without our knowledge (we're stupid?)?
Or, we knew it was going on and did nothing (we're stupid)?
Or, we waited until after something like 911 to act on it (we're stupid)?

Hero, are you calling the American Government stupid???!

Just President Clinton's foriegn policy, military spending, and his dismantaling of the CIA. Stupid is harsh. I'd call it short-sighted...which is the hallmark of his administration and his personal choices.

But would I blame Bush for waiting until after 9/11 (which is your third point)? No. Bush took office in January and immediatly began a review of the military and intellegence communities (it was a 2000 campaign issue after all). The reason is you can't fix problems till you know what's broke and comprenhisive analysis of the problems cannot occur overnight.

The original plan was to spend the first year assessing the situation, then come back in 2002 with a large increase in defense spending (and more tax cuts). 9/11 occurred several months before the review could be completed. Also before 9/11 we were laboring under severe political restraints imposed by Clinton and it would take either time or disaster to understand the what was really happening. We ran out of time on that Tuesday morning when we faced disaster.

So. Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. He slashed the military, the intellegence, botched his own responses to escalating terror attacks, missed Bin Ladden, backed down from Saddam, had sex with an intern, used the power of his office to obstruct justice in an unrelated civil case, had no energy policy, and could play the saxophone.

I wonder if a President Dole would have handled Bin Ladden differently in 1998 and if 9/11 would have been avoided coming after his term (I doubt he'd have served longer then one term).

H

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

So. Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. He slashed the military, the intellegence, botched his own responses to escalating terror attacks, missed Bin Ladden, backed down from Saddam, had sex with an intern, used the power of his office to obstruct justice in an unrelated civil case, had no energy policy, and could play the saxophone.

All true. We agree on this, at least (except the Sax part).
What you seem unable or unwilling to see is that the Bush administration is as bad, for slightly different reasons. At least Clinton wasn't crabbed as a result of sexual frustration.

Chrisisall, atomizing that deceased equis

HERO

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
At least Clinton wasn't crabbed as a result of sexual frustration.

I think that's what's wrong with Hillary.

Hey, I was just watching the President's talk at Freedom House. Man's a fracking genius. Everything he's done, the whole foundation of his foriegn policy comes down to the fundamental notion that freedom is the birthright of everyone: man, woman, Jew, Muslim...everyone and that all peoples regardless of race, creed, color, religion, or economic stratus is capable of self-government. It's a Reaganesque or Linconian vision worthy of our first 21st Century American President.

H

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:43 PM

Quote:
Sort of posted by Hero:
Clinton's Stupid
But would I blame Bush

Yeah, figures. But not to be too partisan about it, but, Bush *is* Clinton. Clearly Bush's membership in the republican party grants him immunity to any attacks.

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

His actions to undermine the UN and America's strategic alliances were a threat. His missile program was a threat. His increasing contact, support, and coordination with terrorists, including Al Queda, but more substantially with the various Palestinian groups...not to mention his efforts to restart his gutted WMD program.
H
And...this all went on without our knowledge (we're stupid?)?
Or, we knew it was going on and did nothing (we're stupid)?
Or, we waited until after something like 911 to act on it (we're stupid)?

Hero, are you calling the American Government stupid???!

Or do you not understand the bigger picture Chrisisall

I think the US was more of a force in undermining the UN than Iraq ever was....

Every member of the security council excluding the US and Britain was willing to accept the work of the weapons inspectors working in Iraq and start to phase out the embargo for humanitarian reasons.

The US ( under Clinton admittedly, but would Bush had done any different ) said they would veto any such plan, so it didn't even get debated.....

Three UN high commissioners resigned saying they didn't want to be a party to genocide, and thousand of dead Iraqis as a result.

Hero keeps saying Iraq was a threat to the US, If I lived in a country that suffered this bullshit driven through by the US, I would personally be a threat to the US. Would US citizens act any different if the roles were reversed?

The results still hamstring the UN to this day, any action against Sudan for example has to be considered to how to get out of it if the US trys to use it towards their own agenda again.....

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

FLETCH2

Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:45 AM

Hummm, wonder how many starving Iraqi's could be fed for the cost of just one gold plated AK? Wonder why the millions found in Saddam's palaces were not being spent on food for the Iraqi people. Obviously the American's fault.

You need to wise up. Saddam was still making millions through legal and illegal oil sales, he chose to spend it on his millitary, the Sunni elite that kept him in power and on an excessive lifestyle. I'm sure had he actually cared enough for the Iraqi people he could have used that money to save them. Instead he let them starve because dead Iraqi's plays good on foreign TV and improves the chances that the UN would loose the support it needed to maintain sanctions.

It's clear to me who the villian is here and just one look at the Iran/Iraq war will tell you that he was more than happy to sacrifice millions of lives for his own agenda.

Makes you wonder though. How many folks starved in Tikrit compared to Shite areas like Basra?

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Hummm, wonder how many starving Iraqi's could be fed for the cost of just one gold plated AK? Wonder why the millions found in Saddam's palaces were not being spent on food for the Iraqi people. Obviously the American's fault.

You need to wise up. Saddam was still making millions through legal and illegal oil sales, he chose to spend it on his millitary, the Sunni elite that kept him in power and on an excessive lifestyle. I'm sure had he actually cared enough for the Iraqi people he could have used that money to save them. Instead he let them starve because dead Iraqi's plays good on foreign TV and improves the chances that the UN would loose the support it needed to maintain sanctions.

It's clear to me who the villian is here and just one look at the Iran/Iraq war will tell you that he was more than happy to sacrifice millions of lives for his own agenda.

Makes you wonder though. How many folks starved in Tikrit compared to Shite areas like Basra?

It was not just a matter of food, the embargo prohibited the sale of chemicals involved in water purification, as well as equipment to clean up the depleted uranium munitions which caused a 300 % increase in cancer related disease in affected areas, etc, etc.

Besides if the rest of the security council wanted to change this policy, who is the US to dictate to
the UN what their policys can and cannot be. I think until the veto power is eliminated the UN is useless.

BTW, with all the money and power the US has, how come there is still people living in wreckage in New Orleans ? I'm sure had he actually cared enough for the [ people of New Orleans and area ] , I mean Bush could have used that money to [ help ] them. Instead he let them starve [ and go homeless ] because he is running the US economy into the ground and needs the cash to help prop up his appointed elected officals in the countrys he currently occupys.

http://www.fromthelaketotheriver.org/legal-aid-1097083.html
Congressional Testimony

REMARKS
ON THE STATUS OF HOUSING
FOR KATRINA EVACUEES
FROM NEW ORLEANS
to
The House Democratic Caucus
of the United States Congress
by
P. Bryan Mauldin
President
From the Lake to the River:
The New Orleans Coalition for Legal Aid and Disaster Relief

This bit stands out to me

" People are buying shovels at Ace Hardware and finding their own relatives in the rubble. "

5 months later.....

I'll admit Saddam was a prick, will you do the same for your prick Bush ?

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

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