It's time.
POSTED BY: Jonus
UPDATED: Monday, March 27, 2006 00:25
VIEWED: 15488
PAGE 12 of 14
Oh, the guy Blair killed. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory, except in the sense of Osama Bin Laden conspired to attack NY on 9.11.01
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Quote:That’s funny coming from you.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
People should try not to use spin.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn:
That’s funny coming from you.
Finn,
Please actually read this post.
This is completely unfair. You know full well I have no agenda at all, and am only telling it as I see it. I may be wrong, and even occassionally in the vicinity of tinfoil hats, but it's certainly not spin.
Only people with an agenda spin. Someone with no underlying motive for what they say would never be spinning it.
Here's what's been bugging me lately.
I have basically come to the fact that there are two types of Bush supporters: Morons and crooks.
Finn. You strike me as a smart guy. You had me for a while with the "on the fence" sort of pratical straight shooting approach.
Then you gave yay Bush for the supreme court nods, when you know as well as I do that those choices were made just about over Bush's dead body.
I agree, kerry would have done worse, much much worse, and I'm not knocking the call to vote for Bush re-election in 2004. I think that was the pragmatic thing to do. What I'm knocking is your continued support of someone who is, objectively, either at best, a grossly incompetent figurehead surround by corrupt and overzealous advisors, or at worst an arrogant tin plated dictator with delusions of grandeur.
Let me go back to another similar situation. In 2004, Bill O'Reilly, back when I liked him, before he turned into a loon, was on the fence with Bush. "Maybe Bush is right, maybe not, we'll wait and see." But, as things developed, instead of logically abandoning at least whole-hearted support for Bush, O'Reilly clung to Bush as if he were Bush's Monica Lewisnky. The thing is, this exposed the awful truth about O'Reilly. Bush had his wallet. He wasn't going to desert Bush no matter what happened in the white house, to the budget, the deficit, Iraq. The truth is, Everything went much worse than O'Reilly's worst possible scenario, and rather than chastize him, he clung. I guess that proved to me that O'Reilly is a crook.
There's only three people left who support Bush who I have any respect for
Two I have moderate failing respect for are Condi Rice and Bill Frist, who I think have been pretty blatant career-booster people who see Bush as their ride to glory.
The only one I truly respect is Bill Kristol, because he actually believes in the agenda. I strongly disagree with him that this is the right course for America, but he will actually come out in favor of imperialism, in favor of wars for oil, in favor of extreme executive power.
Just like I used to respect the Soviets, and Castro, while strongly disagreeing with their positions.
So, here's my question, what I've been trying to push you too: Which one are you?
Are you the guy, who like O'Reilly, and I suspect with Geezer, has his balls caught in the Bush machine and can't afford to oppose him?
Are you a career-junkie who sees supporting Bush as the best career move so you'll contrive the arguments as much as possible?
Or are you the ideological fringe who thinks that imperialism, oil monopolies, extreme executive power, torture, and restriction of civil liberties is actually a good thing?
If you're none of these, then just let go. Bush is a big sinking whirlpool of despair. You have a good republican party full of intelligent caring people, any one of whom could make a decent candidate in '08, and we could leave all of this madness behind us.
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Quote:Thanks, DT, for summing all of it up in this one, neat package.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
We have set the example: "Kill everyone, steal everything, death torture maim kill. All hail limitless executive power. Drug trade is profitable, torture is fun, everyone grab a nuke." This is the new standard.
And I'll add my 2 cent tagline: We must stop creating the monsters we later feel we must destroy, lest we become that which we create.
And lies make it all possible.
Dreamtrove fan Chrisisall
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Quote:Hero is a big boy, and he's tough, you needn't worry about him.
Originally posted by reaverman:
Hmm... yep, definitely arguing only facts there. Why, I see attack after attack after attack on Hero's character. Yep, you're practically a wellspring of logical discourse.
And yes, my logic is in question, where death and torture is involved.
What really gets me going is seeing bright, hard working and basically good dudes like Hero unable to break their chains to the altar of the status quo, the known and presumably lesser evil that seems to creep it's way into the White House, and all of our lives.
Yeah, maybe Bush was a better choice than Kerry, and I'd rather be stabbed than shot, too.
The RWED is a rowdy place, always has been. I'd like to thank everyone that hung in there with this thread (especially Hero, who fired back at me in a fairly gentlemanly manner, considering the provocative tone of my posts to him), I'm still still learnin' here.
Stay strong in the struggle Chrisisall
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Quote:
We must stop creating the monsters we later feel we must destroy, lest we become that which we create.
And lies make it all possible.
Well said Chris,
I've bashed Hero a few times too. He strikes me as new to internet posting because he posts stuff without thoroughly researching it first, a mistake that we all probably made a few times before we realized that we were sitting in front of the machine that had the answers to the questions.
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Quote:Finn, please...by that reasoning, we should pre-emptivly strike at Korea, Iran, China, etc.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It’s not a fact that Saddam was not an imminent threat to the US at the time of the invasion. It is a fact that Saddam may have likely conspired in a failed attempt to assassinate a former US president, and if Saddam had the aforementioned WMDs, a proposition that cannot be dismissed, then he could have pass these on to terrorist agents that may have then used them against the US.
I recently heard that the 'phantom' WMD's, as I called them, were moved into Syria just before our invasion if Iraq, what little there were. This would blow a big hole in my "Bush lied about WMD's" routine, but it also changes very little else. I mean we have our own WMD's, and could be seen as an imminent threat to Saddam, so why didn't he pre-emptivly attack us? (911 was not Saddam, in case you were gonna cite that)
Why am I not allowed by law to punch someone who I believe is gonna hit me in the next few days?
Pre-emptive Chrisisall
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Chris,
the Syria theory comes from a Zionist website. They have been unable to prove how they "know" that and given what we know of Saddam's psychology if he had WMD's he would have used them rather than give them to a country with teritorial claims within Iraq.
I put this down to "hey the Americans were dumb enough to believe Chalibi, maybe we can have them beat up our other enemies while they are at it."
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Well, thanks for the imput, I don't think he ever had ballistic missles, nukes, or EMP particle beam emiters and such, I figgured WMD's to mean mustard gas in launchable 10 mile range canisters. 
Silent but deadly Chrisisall
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I actually agree with Fletch. I thought that was rare enough to be noteworthy, so I commented on it.
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